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TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

propublica.org

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Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#201

Post by 0xffff2 »

sschueller wrote: post #141
HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #20

Maybe I'm totally wrong here, but I don't see much of a difference between extorsionist tax filing software and scam callers warning me about the IRS suing me. Can the government please make something that's easy to use? Filing taxes isn't something that requires a separate company to help with, and I see no reason why these products have a right to exist (and especially not be canonized), especially with how exploit…

I find it interesting that these scam callers warning about IRS suing only works in countries where making an honest mistake on your taxes can result you being threatened with or going to prison.

Which countries are those? I've never been in the position personally, but everything I've ever read says that the IRS is very unlikely to do anything more than demand that you pay the taxes you owe in the case of honest mistakes.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#202

Post by vonmoltke »

inscionent wrote: post #120
vonmoltke wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is "whataboutism" at it's finest. That's not "whataboutism" at all, as I'm not defending Intuit's behavior. > This article is on Intuit. It's focused on Intuit's bad behaviour. ProPublica has other articles on the issues you are complaining about. I'm saying ProPublica should have referenced those articles, rather than making statements that imply everything is the tax preparation industry's fault.

So are aren't defending Intuit but, you are just saying that ProPublic must reference other material before focusing on Intuit? What about... This sounds like industry lobbying that will make it harder and more expensive for me to file my tax and increase the net worth of Sasan Goodarzi.

> So are aren't defending Intuit but, you are just saying that ProPublic must reference other material before focusing on Intuit?

No, I'm saying ProPublica shouldn't make the situation sound like it's all Intuit's fault.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#203

Post by xivzgrev »

Credit karma tax is (actually) free. I’ve used for past 3 years.

Why is it free? Because credit karma uses your financial data (including tax returns) to make better credit card / loan recommendations to you. So it ultimately benefits me as well, that’s why I share my return with them.

BUT you don’t have to share your tax return with CK to file. There’s a box you can uncheck when starting each year.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#204

Post by imagiko »

mars4rp wrote: post #193

I am the developer in charge of CalFile, the free filing software that everyone asks for here for state of California. https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to-file/online/calfile/inde... I am pushing so hard to make it better and more useful to more people, like being able to add capital gain that is not currently supported. these are the push backs that I am getting: 1. Last time they tried to do what all of you ask, a…

I thought calfile was the go-to place for cal state taxes? I use it every year and I think it's a fairly nice tool

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#205

Post by 0xffff2 »

symlinkk wrote: post #196
freddie_mercury wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The IRS certainly can tell me when I am wrong but they won't do it except when the result is in their favor Yes they will. I don't know why you bother to make up a lie so easily disproved. On September 9, 2019, I received a CP16 that stated "We believe there are miscalculations on your 2018 Form 1040, which affect the following areas of your return: - Tax Computation We made changes to your return that correct thes…

Holy shit talk about a humble brag. You overpaid by $21k? You must be balling.

At a 15% rate, that's only 140k in capital gains. Significant, but hardly "balling" if it's a one-time event.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#206

Post by levosmetalo »

robert_foss wrote: post #197
lqet wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: the official tax filing application in Germany which has been around for a few decades is called "ELSTER" (apronym for El ektronische St euer er klärung, "Electronic Tax Return") which literally translates to "MAGPIE", as in "thieving magpie" ("Diebische Elster"). This is a form of self-irony which is quite unusual for the German tax offices. OS portability has greatly improved with their online app [0], wh…

Having moved from Sweden to Germany I appreciate Elster existing (and not being solely paper based unlike the other many many German beaurocratic exercises one has to Wade through). However it misses the most important part. In Sweden your tax declaration comes pre-populated with data they already have, like salary/pension/savings/stock sales/etc., and you can either just accept it as it is or make changes to the alr…

In Germany, it's actually similar. You can opt in to include the data submitted for you by various sources and include them in your tax declaration. The only drawback is you need to select each one (salary, basic info, church tax info) to import it into your declaration, and that you need to wait until end of February since that's the deadline for third parties to submit your data.

Also, some things, like capital gains, you don't even need to declare if you used only German brokers, since they are legally required to submit it for you.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#207

Post by vgetr »

Ultimately the problem is that the tax code is altogether too complex. I filed by hand up until a couple of years ago when I had to start accounting for things like capital gains and dividends from stock sales, and at that point it became too difficult and I started paying for TurboTax. At the end of the day they solve a problem that is entirely manufactured by government.

The main area where the system seems to be gamed from a software standpoint is that the federal government provides software if your income is below a certain threshold. More than that and you’re on your own. _That_ has lobbying written all over it.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#208

Post by lhopki01 »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #54
dangus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are still an unnecessarily painful solution. I did do these last year to finally kick TurboTax to the curb. However, they’re shamefully complex especially considering how they’re already a piece of software. They barely do basic arithmetic. The restrictions are entirely artificial, and the system is gamed so that you either spend a lot of time learning tax form rules and lingo or you just pay TurboTax to do it f…

What about the free forms is painful? I have only ever filed via these forms - I've never used TurboTax, and my AGI exceeds the limits on the federal free file software. To me, it's pretty simple: you read the instruction book and go through it line by line. If you have odd forms to complete, like paperwork for an HSA, a quick google search will set you in the right direction. People with more complicated tax returns…

The painful bit is having to fill out anything at all. I lived and worked in the UK for 11 years and I didn't have to fill out a form once in all those 11 years.

My brother who had rental income only needed to fill out a small form for this additional rental income.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#209

Post by vonmoltke »

xivzgrev wrote: post #200
MR4D wrote: post #190

Ok, I have a really dumb question... Why does everyone say you can't file taxes for free? The IRS has a site for it here: https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-f... I get that Intuit is fighting tooth and nail to keep their business, but "hiding" a page from google - seriously, is that to be considered evil now? Seriously, I'm missing something in this conversation.

You CAN, if... 1) you are under a certain income threshold 2) you go seek out that particular page (vs searching free file in google and clicking on intuit) Or you go directly to intuit and qualify as a “free filer” which you only qualify for if you have a dead simple return - w2 and no deductions or extra forms. The problem isn’t that you can’t file free. The problem is that intuit is doing what it can to bury it wh…

Free fillable forms are available to everyone, and referenced repeatedly in the Form 1040 instructions.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#210

Post by snuxoll »

javagram wrote: post #126
at_a_remove wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point about how the IRS already has all of the relevant information is something that has always puzzled me. Why are we performing this bizarre, ever-changing ritual with the threat of IRS audits hanging over us if they already know everything? I think that is part of why TurboTax has such a foothold. I use it because it walks me through the frankly byzantine process and explains a good deal of the arcane termin…

The IRS doesn’t have all the relevant information though. A lot of deductions and credits are based on events or transactions that aren’t reported to the IRS. State and local tax deduction, charity deduction, medical expense deduction, and so on. There are also various penalties that need to be self reported - the IRS can find them, but only if they do an audit and are looking through bank accounts and other stuff th…

> I’m not sure if the IRS even knows how many kids you have for the child tax credit. How would they?

You have to report the SSN of your dependents on your tax return, still open to fraud but it’s not like you just fill in a number. This was actually a huge issue for the IRS before they co-opted the SSN as a tax identifier, and pretty much the only reason people get one assigned at birth instead of when they begin working.

CGP Grey’s video on the US’ lack of a national ID covers a lot of this, worth a watch.

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