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Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

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Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#171
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point though, if your Nest device starts automatically recording your guests and you don't warn them, could you be liable in a 2-party consent state? But on the flip side, Google Assistant devices don't start recording unless it gets the "OK Google" keyword, so it's not like it's randomly recording everything. You specifically have to turn it on (albeit it can be turned on accidentally if it misdetects an…

its listening for that keyword, whose to say its not listening for others

As an EE, this is the exact point of failure I see even from tech people on this topic.

There is LITERALLY ZERO way to tell that your “Assistant” is not listening for words like Trump or Sanders then marking down in a log if they were mentioned with other words like “Fucking” or “Communist” or whatever.

No one has or realistically can do a full reverse engineer of the firmware here, you’re talking about the same protections used in game consoles and smart phones.

The “research” into “is my Alexa spying on me” looks at large pattern encrypted traffic and determines they aren’t always uploading. But they absolutely could be collecting metadata of what you talk about without the words themselves.

The meta data of your habits and conversations for a month would be kilobytes at most and sent in a single HTTP/MQTT message that could look a ping or keepalive or some normal traffic.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#172
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

of course I do, it's alluded to in my comment: "(beyond what smartphones are already capable of)" I agree, smart phones provide the same surveillance capabilities of 'smart' speakers and more. But supposedly phones aren't always on and listening to all your audio like the 'smart' speakers. This might just be a divide in society, some people accept surveillance as not an issue and are fine with it. Would you place a s…

> But supposedly phones aren't always on and listening to all your audio like the 'smart' speakers. New phones are. Also, AFAIK, Alexa et al. are only sending traffic home after the wake word is heard. I believe this has been confirmed via wireshark.

> New phones are.

But it's a setting. I own an iPhone have turned off "Hey Siri". If it would still listen all the time that would be a security issue and breach of trust.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate not having privacy but I don't understand singling Google out here. Siri is listening (both on phones and on Apple' homepod), Alexa is listening, Cortana is listening, ... I actually am less worried about those (since I turn them off) than I do about Netflix/Amazon knowing every movie I watch. Amazon knowing every product I order. My Credit Card and Bank company knowing every business I transact with. My Mac a…

regarding Siri, I think the general assumption is that the phone is triggered by hearing 'Siri' to start recording. I doubt very much that people think their phone is always recording everything and that they are therefore ok with being recorded when not using siri.

Here is a very interesting paper describing the on-device deep neural network that waits for "hey siri" to be uttered (2017):

https://machinelearning.apple.com/2017/10/01/hey-siri.html

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#175
post #115

I was a huge Google Fan but this is becoming lunacy. I understood trading some data and privacy for great search results, maps and free quality email. But people willingly bringing always on listening devices in to their homes (beyond what smartphones are already capable of) I just can't comprehend it. Why would people voluntarily do this in exchange for being able to ask for weather, play a playlist, add a todo and…

My personal view is that the biggest issue here is the lack of user protection. I'd be a LOT less concerned about this if the appropriate legal framework protected me.

The Star Trek vision of voice as an interface is a good vision. The question is how the regulatory framework protects users in this world and keeps it from being the dystopian nightmare that our "for profit corporations get to do whatever they like as long as you agreed in an 'all or nothing' click through" seem to be headed for.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#176
Your layman user has an very limited concept of what privacy actually is or represents. Conceptually speaking they don't understand this data is curated, profiled, stored, analyzed, and continually built upon 24/7 from dozens of sources and companies leaving the user with little to no capability of ever erasing or controlling said data.

I've personally encountered numerous people/families who think it's the utmost importance for them and their children to know how to interface and learn with this technology as if they won't be able to survive without them in the future. What frightens me is how now these systems are able to start incorporating voice patterns, literal emotion in my voice that can be analyzed alongside any of the multitude of other data points they've already collected.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#177
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate not having privacy but I don't understand singling Google out here. Siri is listening (both on phones and on Apple' homepod), Alexa is listening, Cortana is listening, ... I actually am less worried about those (since I turn them off) than I do about Netflix/Amazon knowing every movie I watch. Amazon knowing every product I order. My Credit Card and Bank company knowing every business I transact with. My Mac a…

I don't see anything in the parent comment that says this is a Google-only issue. Also, the Netflix and Amazon examples don't seem to be in the same category, to me. Every time you interact with Netflix and Amazon, you are doing so deliberately. You are choosing exactly what to give them. You can easily pick another service. Always-on listening devices, on the other hand, are taking data that you did not choose to gi…

> Every time you interact with ... Amazon, you are doing so deliberately.

Don't forget that Echo devices are Amazon's always-on listening devices.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#178
No person or device has ever asked me for consent for their Siris, Cortanas and Alexas. So this time and place is as good as any:

I do not consent to the audio-, image- or video recording of any "smart device" that is not my own. I ask that any such data about me that has been passively recorded be deleted.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#179
post #12

>"Gosh, I haven't thought about this before in quite this way," Osterloh said. "It's quite important for all these technologies to think about all users... we have to consider all stakeholders that might be in proximity." How much do they not care about privacy that a chief exec with an army of lawyers and advisors "haven't thought about this before"?

All "big tech" are at it, I tried to go to "My Pictures" the other day and microsoft asked me to run my pictures through facial recognition. They said that by consenting I was asserting I had the consent of anyone who appeared in any of my photos or might appear in future which is insane to ask of anyone, no-one can really give that third party consent. Then when I refused they showed me a nag screen which didn't hav…

I don't have any of these issues, but it's because I use my phone solely for making phone calls and GPS. I'm also on IOS, which may have something to do with it.

Re: Google chief: I'd disclose smart speakers before guests enter my home

#180
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it were socially accepted to tell people to turn their Android device off while they are in company. I wish I could tell people that visit me to turn their device off or put it into rf and sound shielded containers. I don't mind people using computers and their powers to ease their lives. I don't want to deny them that just because they are next to me or in my home. I just don't want them to use that power to…

I have voice-activated assistant on my droid turned off, meanwhile Siri is active on all iDevices, and everyone with a laptop at your place is a mole. Do you expect to altogether prevent people from bringing computing devices into your home? If you are not a state target, then that is just silly. Focus your malcontent on the real bad actors, not their victims.

> I have voice-activated assistant on my droid turned off, meanwhile Siri is active on all iDevices

This is not true, voice-activated Siri is a setting as well and turned off on my iPhone.

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