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TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

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Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#101

Post by magashna »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #54
dangus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are still an unnecessarily painful solution. I did do these last year to finally kick TurboTax to the curb. However, they’re shamefully complex especially considering how they’re already a piece of software. They barely do basic arithmetic. The restrictions are entirely artificial, and the system is gamed so that you either spend a lot of time learning tax form rules and lingo or you just pay TurboTax to do it f…

What about the free forms is painful? I have only ever filed via these forms - I've never used TurboTax, and my AGI exceeds the limits on the federal free file software. To me, it's pretty simple: you read the instruction book and go through it line by line. If you have odd forms to complete, like paperwork for an HSA, a quick google search will set you in the right direction. People with more complicated tax returns…

Painful compared to other countries which send you "this is what we have on you" and you say "yep" and that's it.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#102

Post by xtracto »

gjvnq wrote: post #9

Just for comparison: in Brazil the _Receita Federal_ (IRS equivalent) provides a free multi-platform* Java desktop app for filing your taxes. The UI isn't great* and if you do complex stock trading it can be a pain to add the necessary information, but for the vast majority of people it works just fine. It also shows if it is better to use the standard deduction or the itemized deductions for your particular case and…

Adding a data point with Mexico:

All invoices are digital. Every person who gets a TaxId also gets a Private/Public keypair and generating invoices means signing the document with that key. The amazing thing is that now accountants talk about the XML, which is the legal representation of the invoice.

As a result, every year if you file your taxes, you go I to the government freely provided website , get into your account and most of the data is there for the exercise, including deducted money that you can get back.

If you are a standard worker earning less than certain amount (very sensible, so the vast majority of workers fall in there) you don't even have to file your taxes.

That's one thing that is good about this country.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#103

Post by bregma »

cesarb wrote: post #46
gjvnq wrote: post #9

Just for comparison: in Brazil the _Receita Federal_ (IRS equivalent) provides a free multi-platform* Java desktop app for filing your taxes. The UI isn't great* and if you do complex stock trading it can be a pain to add the necessary information, but for the vast majority of people it works just fine. It also shows if it is better to use the standard deduction or the itemized deductions for your particular case and…

> Brazil the _Receita Federal_ (IRS equivalent) provides a free multi-platform Java desktop app for filing your taxes. Other fun stuff about that desktop app... * Originally, it was a DOS-only program (yes, it's that old). Then for a while, it was Windows-only, then for some time (probably due to the Linux users complaining) there was both the Windows-only version and the Java multi-platform version, and later the Wi…

> probably due to the Linux users complaining

For a while a lot of non-aligned countries were mandating the exclusive use of open-source software by government agencies, because the idea of their government being beholden to a US corporation was anathema. I suspect this was the motivation behind eliminating the Microsoft-only government service.

I haven't heard much about that open-source requirement lately. I suspect the Long Reach has been making quiet moves behind the scenes, and the ascendancy of neofascist regimes in many of those countries will do what fascist regimes always do (ie. cater to the cartel making up the fasces).

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#104

Post by liziwizi »

gjvnq wrote: post #9

Just for comparison: in Brazil the _Receita Federal_ (IRS equivalent) provides a free multi-platform* Java desktop app for filing your taxes. The UI isn't great* and if you do complex stock trading it can be a pain to add the necessary information, but for the vast majority of people it works just fine. It also shows if it is better to use the standard deduction or the itemized deductions for your particular case and…

I also want to brag about Tax-On-Web for Belgium. Development started over 15 years ago, it's been steadily improving over the years, it even works for linux users, it already fills in all tax details they already know (like wages)

I love it!

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#105

Post by jimmydddd »

mywittyname wrote: post #35
HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #20

Maybe I'm totally wrong here, but I don't see much of a difference between extorsionist tax filing software and scam callers warning me about the IRS suing me. Can the government please make something that's easy to use? Filing taxes isn't something that requires a separate company to help with, and I see no reason why these products have a right to exist (and especially not be canonized), especially with how exploit…

> I see no reason why these products have a right to exist (and especially not be canonized), especially with how exploitive they are or can be. But if we remove the annual pain of dealing with taxes, then Americans will get complacent and may stop being bothered by having to pay taxes. - The serious ideology of a major American political party vis-a-vis taxes.

I sort of agree with the pain guys. I'm currently self employed (US) and have to separately pay estimated taxes quarterly. Since I've been doing this, I'm a lot more sensitive to politicians who want to raise my taxes.

Similarly, there is a group in the US whose main goal is to change the law so that employers can't pay your taxes on your behalf. Instead, you would get your full salary, and then have to write a check to pay your taxes. The group believes this would raise tax awareness.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#106

Post by Accujack »

candyman wrote: post #50

I guess this is why some voters are eager for someone like Elizabeth Warren to get in office and stop some of this anti-competitive behavior. It's odd to me because TurboTax is good software (at least when I used it) and it saves time. So to me it's worth the money. But to force someone who as a job and no real deductions to not simply file a 1040 EZ online is just a rent seeker making sure they get paid.

>Elizabeth Warren to get in office and stop some of this anti-competitive behavior.

Warren is a run of the mill middle of the pack Democrat. She only looks good because at present the GOP looks so bad.

The government needs to be reformed, electing one party or another President isn't going to change much, unless you set the bar really low (Trump)

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#107

Post by peter303 »

u801e wrote: post #3

Free fillable forms[1] has been around for a number of years and van be used by anyone regardless of income level. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_File#Free_File_Fillable...

IRS has your W2s and 1099s by February. It could compute and suggest your takes based on your previous year age & family profile. It already does this verify your filing.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#108

Post by Cthulhu_ »

gjvnq wrote: post #9

Just for comparison: in Brazil the _Receita Federal_ (IRS equivalent) provides a free multi-platform* Java desktop app for filing your taxes. The UI isn't great* and if you do complex stock trading it can be a pain to add the necessary information, but for the vast majority of people it works just fine. It also shows if it is better to use the standard deduction or the itemized deductions for your particular case and…

Similar in NL; it used to be a desktop app (which IIRC was even distributed via diskettes or a CD-ROM but later just a download), nowadays it's a webapp. Also prefills most information from employers (who already pay your income tax for you every month), mortgages, banks, etc.

The only complexity for me came when I bought my house (some costs are deductible) and when I had to report Bitcoin held at Coinbase (and for that I had to report the (EUR) on January 1st 2018 specifically).

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#109

Post by peter303 »

u801e wrote: post #3

Free fillable forms[1] has been around for a number of years and van be used by anyone regardless of income level. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_File#Free_File_Fillable...

You could miss forms like AMT and NET with FFF. Until recent tax reform I was borderline most years, so defer to tax software to determine if I had these taxes. ACA penalty a mess too.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#110

Post by untog »

jimmydddd wrote: post #105
mywittyname wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see no reason why these products have a right to exist (and especially not be canonized), especially with how exploitive they are or can be. But if we remove the annual pain of dealing with taxes, then Americans will get complacent and may stop being bothered by having to pay taxes. - The serious ideology of a major American political party vis-a-vis taxes.

I sort of agree with the pain guys. I'm currently self employed (US) and have to separately pay estimated taxes quarterly. Since I've been doing this, I'm a lot more sensitive to politicians who want to raise my taxes. Similarly, there is a group in the US whose main goal is to change the law so that employers can't pay your taxes on your behalf. Instead, you would get your full salary, and then have to write a check…

I'm just imagining applying this principle more broadly. Perhaps before every meal I could be forced to calculate the number of calories in each item, total them up and submit them. Maybe before every car journey I could fill out an estimate of the wear and tear on the tyres, gearbox and suspension, and record that in a big log book of car events.

Doesn't seem like a particularly useful way to approach life, to me.

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