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TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

propublica.org

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Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#91

Post by maxerickson »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #54
dangus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are still an unnecessarily painful solution. I did do these last year to finally kick TurboTax to the curb. However, they’re shamefully complex especially considering how they’re already a piece of software. They barely do basic arithmetic. The restrictions are entirely artificial, and the system is gamed so that you either spend a lot of time learning tax form rules and lingo or you just pay TurboTax to do it f…

What about the free forms is painful? I have only ever filed via these forms - I've never used TurboTax, and my AGI exceeds the limits on the federal free file software. To me, it's pretty simple: you read the instruction book and go through it line by line. If you have odd forms to complete, like paperwork for an HSA, a quick google search will set you in the right direction. People with more complicated tax returns…

That's not what intuitive means.

('intuitive' is over used as a goal, but a form where you look up the instructions line by line in a separate book and where you occasionally have to search out how to fill out a subform is not intuitive at all.)

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#92

Post by vonmoltke »

Ensorceled wrote: post #69
vonmoltke wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then ProPublica should not be making statements in the article that explicitly tie Intuit lobbying to fighting efforts to improve the current tax code. See another of my replies for examples.

Are you saying that Intuit isn't lobbying to keep the current tax code, and tax filing, complex? Do you have information that refutes this article?

The article doesn't present any evidence that Intuit is lobbying to keep the tax code complex, just tax filing. The code complexity, as I have already stated multiple times, stems from a myriad of special interests.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#93

Post by joezydeco »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #60
justin66 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not have the dialogs to walk you through the weird parts of filing a tax return. It's not really comparable to something like TurboTax.

What parts are the "weird parts of filing a tax return"? Not trying to come across as combative, I'm just genuinely curious.

Think of these "free fillable forms" as a spreadsheet. Numbers go in boxes, other boxes compute themselves and nothing more.

Now go look at the IRS instructions for a typical schedule. Here's a common one, Schedule A for itemized deductions:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040sca.pdf

It's a mere 17 pages including lookup tables. Pretty lightweight. Some go way longer.

Now, is all of this information and logic put into the free form calculator? It's not. So you need to read along with these instructions and follow all of the conditionals and detours described inside.

This is what you're buying when you buy a tax prep program, and this is what's missing from the free options.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#95

Post by Frost1x »

grepthisab wrote: post #6
u801e wrote: post #3

Free fillable forms[1] has been around for a number of years and van be used by anyone regardless of income level. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_File#Free_File_Fillable...

Haven't read the article yet, but I assume they're probably talking about the lobbying to remove free filing or TurboTax's attempts to hide the free option as much as possible with a thousand ways to upsell you by using dark patterns during the tax filing process.

It's hilarious how groups like Intuit market their tax filing product as free, then make it nearly impossible to go through a free path to filing for pretty much anyone.

Personally, I avoid companies that use dishonest practices like this and hope they go under, but so much for "voting with my checkbook" in today's society. Power has shifted too much that it's going to be quite hard to pull it back to the average citizen.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#96

Post by mac01021 »

Aloha wrote: post #8
vonmoltke wrote: post #2

ProPublica seems to be singularly focused on Intuit to the exclusion of all the other powerful interests who benefit from a complex and opaque tax code. They may be fighting efforts to make filing easier under the current rules, but they aren't really doing anything to keep those rules a clusterfuck.

No one else really has the same lobbying might as intuit. Even HR Block is smaller (and targets a different market)

The GP's point (I think) is that many companies have much greater lobbying might than Intuit (Amazon, Google, Cocacola, Unilever, ...). Those companies may not care so much about how taxes are filed the way Intuit does, but they do care about keeping complicated tax codes in place that include all their favorite loopholes. So they lobby for that, without much regard for the details of the filing procedure.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#97

Post by bluGill »

rolltiide wrote: post #62
vonmoltke wrote: post #2

ProPublica seems to be singularly focused on Intuit to the exclusion of all the other powerful interests who benefit from a complex and opaque tax code. They may be fighting efforts to make filing easier under the current rules, but they aren't really doing anything to keep those rules a clusterfuck.

Turbotax is my cheapest option to doing taxes. My tax lawyer would cost me probably $40,000 to do the same thing just for the hours and their obsession with analyzing parallel legal theories and case law. I use my tax lawyer to construct the whole business model before any tax filings actually have to occur. Yes I could also consider a different lawyer and cpa for actually filing the tax return. They would also be mo…

There are other tax programs that are generally cheaper than turbotax.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#98

Post by cat199 »

candyman wrote: post #50

I guess this is why some voters are eager for someone like Elizabeth Warren to get in office and stop some of this anti-competitive behavior. It's odd to me because TurboTax is good software (at least when I used it) and it saves time. So to me it's worth the money. But to force someone who as a job and no real deductions to not simply file a 1040 EZ online is just a rent seeker making sure they get paid.

Your statement:

> ... it saves time. So to me it's worth the money.

is (unless I'm missing some alternative), based a in comparison to paper-based forms, which are in turn a horribly inefficient way for the IRS (which all taxpayers pay for) to operate.

The question is not only the anti-competitive behavior of entrenched 'supported electronic filing services', but that these are 'required' and facilitated due to horribly inefficient processes that the IRS refuses to fix properly by simply creating a way for individuals to e-file in the first place.

Re: TurboTax’s 20-Year Fight to Stop Americans from Filing Taxes for Free

#100

Post by magashna »

cpwright wrote: post #87
HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #20

Maybe I'm totally wrong here, but I don't see much of a difference between extorsionist tax filing software and scam callers warning me about the IRS suing me. Can the government please make something that's easy to use? Filing taxes isn't something that requires a separate company to help with, and I see no reason why these products have a right to exist (and especially not be canonized), especially with how exploit…

Filing taxes does not actually require a separate company to help with. You can download the PDFs (or go to the post office), read the directions and fill them out yourself. I have never actually done that; but my parents did well after I was using software, which sure is more convenient.

I think if you make under $70k or so you can do it online as well, there's a few sites that officially help you on behalf of the IRS.
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