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Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

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Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#341

Post by TeMPOraL »

reportgunner wrote: post #340
TeMPOraL wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We definitely should tax all dirty energy, and the shifting price landscape will do a lot to fix the environmental issues we're facing. That said, it's not enough - because the market isn't some NP-complete-problem-solving magic oracle. It's just a greedy optimization algorithm. It's very prone to falling into bad local optima. We know that for a fact, that's the basis of most regulations around markets. Left unatten…

Energy on it's own is not dirty or clean. You cannot test the wires in the wall to say yep, this energy is clean . You can of course tax the energy producers, but that does not prevent fraud on it's own - see oil tankers converting gas pollutants to water and causing even more harm.

> Energy on it's own is not dirty or clean. You cannot test the wires in the wall to say yep, this energy is clean.

Yes. "Clean/dirty energy" is a shorthand for clean/dirty energy sources.

> You can of course tax the energy producers, but that does not prevent fraud on it's own

Sure. Taxing emissions is a necessary but not sufficient component of a sane energy policy.

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#343

Post by lukev »

conception wrote: post #205
lukev wrote: post #132

The energy consumption of Bitcoin isn't new news. What continues to disappoint me, however, is how many people immediately jump to its defense with arguments based on the value it provides, as if that offset its cost. What gets neglected is that the Bitcoin algorithm is inherently wasteful . By its very design, it results in an insane amount of duplicated, pointless computation. The question isn't whether something l…

The other side is that people who mine bitcoin have to have basically “free” energy - margins are too tight. So while it’s wasteful, people aren’t burning coal or gas to produce bitcoin in the big bitcoin farms. Hydro and geothermal rule.

The headline article talks extensively about how this is not the case.

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#344

Post by noxer »

paulmd wrote: post #227
Iv wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am really surprised that Bitcoin (or cryptocurrencies in general) hasn't solved its energy use yet and is still legal. I thought the world would switch to proof-of-stake coins and gradually make bitcoins harder to use.

vlad whatever was full of shit 4 years ago when he said that he thought proof of work would be eliminated within 6 months. I bought hardware on the basis that he was wrong and it paid out. I dunno why anyone still has faith in eth as a concept, it's a garbage programming model, it's a garbage developer, who has failed for an inordinate period of time as measured by the crypto community. he's just trying to pump up hi…

Regarding the supply problem: The supply could be inflated and deflated with crypto backed stablecoins to adjust for whatever the market needs

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se2CDsmMqvE

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#345

Post by feanaro »

paulmd wrote: post #284
zadler wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USD bills can’t be easily transferred over the Internet.

look at this scrub who's never heard of venmo yes, there are a lot of fungible ways to transfer hard currency over the internet... once you acquire it. again: acquiring it is the hard part, because nobody wants to trade a zimbabwe dollar for a USD. Bitcoin does nothing to help your zimbabwe dollars be less worthless than they are in USD, therefore they don't help the currency conversion process at all.

Venmo, the service exclusively available in the United States? https://help.venmo.com/hc/en-us/articles/235225428-Signing-U...

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#346

Post by tuesdayrain »

adrianN wrote: post #229
gruez wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>trust-based models (like Stellar) What you're describing is basically Libra with slightly better entities backing it. Transactions can be reversed by those "trusted entities" with no recourse by you and at no cost to them. At least with PoW and PoS (to an extent), attempting to reverse transactions has a cost. Speaking of PoS, were the issues with PoS ever solved? Specifically the "nothing at stake" problem. The Wik…

I'd argue that people generally want systems where you can revert transactions that you made by mistake at almost no additional cost.

There's also a significant niche of people who want assurance that a transaction can never be reversed. For example online entertainers who get donations for thousands of dollars only to have them charged back months later.

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#347

Post by ben_w »

celticninja wrote: post #247
mehrdadn wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renewable energy isn't zero carbon. At the very least you gotta produce the energy generating system somehow. Then maintain it.

But renewable is all wasted if there is no demand. Hydro power used for bitcoin mining doesn't find a new user immediately if bitcoin stops and the power can't be stored long term so it can be wasted.

Hydro is the one type of renewable with built-in long-term storage.

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#348

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

paulmd wrote: post #245
puranjay wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even know what problem Bitcoin is solving anymore. I haven't seen a single website accepting Bitcoin as a payment in the last whole year.

the problem is largely allowing chinese nationals to extract hard currency past PRC capital controls (any electricity you burn is converted to BTC, and it's easy to bribe a local official to ignore it) and a side of russian mafia transactions (cryptolocker/etc) there really aren't any significant (legal) north american/european transactions that occur in BTC

Care to cite your sources?

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#349

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

Iv wrote: post #165
lukev wrote: post #132

The energy consumption of Bitcoin isn't new news. What continues to disappoint me, however, is how many people immediately jump to its defense with arguments based on the value it provides, as if that offset its cost. What gets neglected is that the Bitcoin algorithm is inherently wasteful . By its very design, it results in an insane amount of duplicated, pointless computation. The question isn't whether something l…

I am really surprised that Bitcoin (or cryptocurrencies in general) hasn't solved its energy use yet and is still legal. I thought the world would switch to proof-of-stake coins and gradually make bitcoins harder to use.

Should Christmas lights be illegal too because they are "wasting energy"? Shouldn't consumers be allowed to choose what they will do with the energy that they pay for? Or is this soviet Russia?

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#350

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #318
donatj wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With energy becoming more and more renewable, does it really matter if BTC uses a lot of it?

It does, because it competes with decarbonizations of things our civilization actually needs. Once that's done, it'll still be ridiculous to try and base the economy on bitcoins, because proof of work scales so badly it'll happily eat any and all energy that's made available. Thousands of years from now, when humanity builds its first Dyson sphere, I would like to believe the collected energy will be used for purpose…

And you're just going to ignore that we can do layer 2 technologies like lightning network?
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