What happens when a city bans cars from its streets? • Hacker News Board

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#201

Post by 0x14c1de72 » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 9:12 AM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #55

brenden2 wrote: post #3

I'm so happy to see this idea starting to get mainstream attention. I predict that in 50-100 years we'll look back on the age of the automobile as one of the biggest mistakes in urban planning. Automobiles are dangerous, kill thousands of people every year, contribute significantly to pollution, and cause health problems by discouraging physical activity. They're expensive, inefficient, and cause more harm than good…

> I predict that in 50-100 years we'll look back on the age of the automobile as one of the biggest mistakes in urban planning. I think that's a very hyperbolic prediction. I think elevating the automobile to the detriment of other forms of transportation will be viewed as a mistake, but the automobile itself is no more a mistake than the horse and carriage were. > My dream is that one day most streets in Manhattan w…

There is a difference though, centuries before cars they didn't have trains/metros/drones/airplanes so the streets were the ONLY venue for transportation/logistics, thus necessary.

That said I don't believe a city without cars will work unless it's planned for that before building. Basically all everyday logistics would have to be underground. Obviously it would only work for very densely populated areas.

I'd like to see something like that though. Small densely populated areas connected by trains/metros and surrounded by forests.

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#202

Post by garretraziel » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 9:13 AM UTC

megaremote wrote: post #156

criddell wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-driving cars are going trigger a new wave of automobile growth, at least in the US. They won't be dangerous, will run clean, be super convenient and unbelievably inexpensive to own and operate. They are going to throw gasoline on the sprawl fire. There will certainly be some city centers and other areas closed to car traffic (although probably not most of Manhattan - delivery vehicles are a significant part of t…

> They won't be dangerous, will run clean, be super convenient and unbelievably inexpensive to own and operate. Oh, they will not use tires? Which leave smalls bits of plastic everywhere they go that get washed into our waterway as micro-plastic.

I would say that yes, in some distant future, they will not use tires.

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#203

Post by srg0 » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 9:16 AM UTC

isostatic wrote: post #166

adjkant wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When was this ever true in Manhattan It never was, but the car problem always existed because roads needing to be clear for horses caused the same prohibitive issues of using streets for pedestrians. > why do you think it would become true just by getting rid of cars? It wouldn't be just getting rid of cars, its what you do with the space once you get rid of them. Added greenery, protected bike lanes, a lane or two…

And deliveries, not just your amazon prime 2 hour service, but for shops to restock, and building sites to handle tons of equipment, cement, rubble, etc?

As it works in Europe, businesses and residents can get a (usually paid) permit to enter such areas, or there're hours when traffic is permitted. The same for building sites, they get an approval for a temporary modification of the traffic regulations. Most minor deliveries (food, post) are done using lightweight transport (small trucks, scooters, bicycles, kick scooters, on foot). Usually there are parkings on the borders of the area, so it's not a problem for who arrives from afar. It's actually very nice experience.

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#204

Post by bkor » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 9:22 AM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #5

Not all cities can ban cars at this point for multiple reasons. I live for several years in a medium sized wealthy Western European city that's clogged with traffic. Why? Well, rich Europeans don't like living in cities with tall ugly blocks a so they grow outwards by developing cozy low density suburbs. 1) This suburban expansion was possible due to the cheap automobiles that permitted pretty much everyone to move o…

Some of the most highly paid people at my office take public transport. This despite having their "VIP" parking place, living in suburbs, etc.

Your example seems to be pretty unique in that it's really close to car industry. Some of your assumptions are completely off though.

In Netherlands our Prime minister takes a bicycle to work. He has way more influence than the top paid people in my office.

If you look at the history in The Netherlands it wasn't always a bicycle friendly country. Even in the last 10 years there's been many changes to make things different. For e.g. Utrecht a lot of work only happened in the last 2 years, see e.g. https://vimeo.com/344373585.

Other changes are to reduce the speed for cars. Basically: road near a lot of other houses? 30km/h, then 50km/h for inner city roads. Outside of the city 80km/h. Safer for pedestrians, nicer for the people living there (the road is way less dangerous), plus immediately makes some alternative forms of transport a better alternative.

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#205

Post by bkor » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 9:24 AM UTC

choeger wrote: post #39

Does anyone really think children will play on the streets when buses, trams, bicycles, emergency services, garbage trucks, and delivery vans still need that space? Does anyone really believe the "empty" parking lots will become public space? Consider two things: First, every apartment block in a city needs access by road for the emergency services. Second, a more livable city will attract more citizens. This in turn…

Normally buses don't go on every road. Delivery vans are usually restricted which hours of the day they're allowed to deliver.

I highly suggest to read up on what actually is allowed and what's not in a "car free" city. It isn't as black and white as you might think.

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#206

Post by bkor » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 9:32 AM UTC

wincy wrote: post #49

judge2020 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming the city is made for people as the parent comment said, you would go to your (very close) train station and get a ride to the nearest hospital or the nearest urgent care.

As someone who suffers from motion sickness, and whose children are the same, with trains being the worst offender (since we can't look forward which mitigates the issue somewhat), I do not look forward to this future.

In trains it's better to look towards the back of the train. So do it next to a window, but with your face towards the back of the train.

This at least according to one person I was on a train with. I had a reserved seat looking towards the back of the train. I (and most people) don't like those. The other person really wanted my seat because of motion sickness. So we were both really happy to switch seats :-D

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#207

Post by benj111 » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 9:36 AM UTC

Razengan wrote: post #192

mamon wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't drive by themselves, but can be driven in a car by friend or family, who will take them exactly to their final destination. Public transportation requires them to walk significant distance, climb stairs, etc, which is not nearly as convenient. Of course taxis are the alternative, but they are quite expensive, and taxi driver might not be as helpful and forgiving for their disabilities as a family member wo…

Yep, taxi drivers are strangers, which is not desirable for people who need to be chaperoned, and in worse cases it puts those passengers at a risk of being taken advantage of (like being charged an unnecessarily higher fare, or not getting their forgotten belongings back.)

In a future where we get rid of private cars, we could have community taxis/buses that are trained to deal with these things.

Theres a woman near me with some kind of mental impairment that gets picked up and dropped off by a mini bus with a lift on the back, so the model obviously exists in some form.

Plus it doesn't rely on a support network that may not be there.

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#208

Post by Scapeghost » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 10:13 AM UTC

What's with all the anti-car articles lately? It's pointless to try having any discussion about it because any comment that even remotely suggests the situational necessity of cars is downvoted out of visibility.

Might as well disable comments and just tell everyone what to think in the title. Drop the pretense of not being an echo chamber by this point.

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#209

Post by cesnja » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 10:56 AM UTC

8bitsrule wrote: post #152

Then narrow corridors can open up for tiny, induction-powered, two-person electric 'trams' that move at a walking pace, and follow sensor-detected 'tracks' to the requested destination. If I need to get somewhere 'downtown' that's 12-40 blocks away, that buses don't go, that's a long walk. I predict that the space and demand for sane transport options will remain.

Electric scooters might be the solution here.

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#210

Post by isostatic » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 11:09 AM UTC

srg0 wrote: post #203

isostatic wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And deliveries, not just your amazon prime 2 hour service, but for shops to restock, and building sites to handle tons of equipment, cement, rubble, etc?

As it works in Europe, businesses and residents can get a (usually paid) permit to enter such areas, or there're hours when traffic is permitted. The same for building sites, they get an approval for a temporary modification of the traffic regulations. Most minor deliveries (food, post) are done using lightweight transport (small trucks, scooters, bicycles, kick scooters, on foot). Usually there are parkings on the b…

Sure, for a small area that's fine, but if you're talking about the entire island of Manhattan that's a problem.

I suppose if you made say every 20th street open to one way single street traffic (so 20th goes west, 40th east, 60th west etc), and every even avenue open (2nd south, 4th north, 6th south), that could work