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What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

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Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#181

Post by Razengan »

benj111 wrote: post #170
Razengan wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My dream is that one day most streets ... will be closed to car traffic and replaced with green space full of trees, flowers, children playing, and usable public space. While I share that dream, and rarely ever need a car myself, I cannot currently imagine a better alternative to having a personal car in your home for the following situations: • The most obvious: People who need to be chaperoned: children, the elde…

"The most obvious: the elderly and people with disabilities" Interesting you pick that as your first point, as this is an argument for the opposite. The 3 groups of people that can't drive, are these 2 and kids.

> The 3 groups of people that can't drive, are these 2 and kids.

Ah sorry, I should have explicitly stated that they need others to drive them around. Taxis and public transport are usually not convenient for them.

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#183

Post by bb123 »

simongray wrote: post #168
deepGem wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought long and hard about the automobile and it's allure. As much as I hate the inefficiencies, I still believe that for a vast majority of humans, the automobile is their private abode, that takes them to places. We are explorers by heart and ever since the invention of the wheel, we have coveted vehicles. They are our private sanctuaries that propel us from one location to another. No other mode of transport…

> I still believe that for a vast majority of humans, the automobile is their private abode, that takes them to places. We are explorers by heart and ever since the invention of the wheel, we have coveted vehicles. They are our private sanctuaries that propel us from one location to another. No other mode of transport, be it a bus, train or god forbid a plane, provides this level of comfort. I think this is a cultura…

But your comment glosses over the part about rural people though. The reason these people love them is because there is no alternative and I don't really see how we can change that. Mass transit doesn't make sense in rural areas.

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#184

Post by bb123 »

aeharding wrote: post #4

I've dreamt about this. I would immediately move to the first US city that bans SOV commuters from a significant portion of the city (let's say, a couple square miles), and establishes superblocks where no vehicles are allowed whatsoever, with the old streets converted to green space. Of course, I doubt this will happen in my lifetime.

The problem is that most of those SOV commuters are commuters because they cant afford to live in the city. I count myself among them. I would rather not drive, but public transport is too expensive and so is housing. If I have to choose between owning a home and driving, or renting for the rest of my life but having the luxury of a bike I'm going to choose the former.

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#185

Post by mamon »

benj111 wrote: post #170
Razengan wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My dream is that one day most streets ... will be closed to car traffic and replaced with green space full of trees, flowers, children playing, and usable public space. While I share that dream, and rarely ever need a car myself, I cannot currently imagine a better alternative to having a personal car in your home for the following situations: • The most obvious: People who need to be chaperoned: children, the elde…

"The most obvious: the elderly and people with disabilities" Interesting you pick that as your first point, as this is an argument for the opposite. The 3 groups of people that can't drive, are these 2 and kids.

They can't drive by themselves, but can be driven in a car by friend or family, who will take them exactly to their final destination. Public transportation requires them to walk significant distance, climb stairs, etc, which is not nearly as convenient. Of course taxis are the alternative, but they are quite expensive, and taxi driver might not be as helpful and forgiving for their disabilities as a family member would.

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#186

Post by 317070 »

bb123 wrote: post #183
simongray wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still believe that for a vast majority of humans, the automobile is their private abode, that takes them to places. We are explorers by heart and ever since the invention of the wheel, we have coveted vehicles. They are our private sanctuaries that propel us from one location to another. No other mode of transport, be it a bus, train or god forbid a plane, provides this level of comfort. I think this is a cultura…

But your comment glosses over the part about rural people though. The reason these people love them is because there is no alternative and I don't really see how we can change that. Mass transit doesn't make sense in rural areas.

But (electric) bikes do? Yeah, you will probably own a car living in a rural area, but where I was from, when you went to the city you either switched modes (car+walk/scoot) or cycled to the city. The group of people who really has no alternative is actually quite small. And over here, there is a small but growing opinion that those people maybe should live in the city in the first place? Right now they are making city life more noisy, smelly, toxic, ugly and unsafe for the city person on his cycle, and that basically for free. Is it really a right to exchange other peoples environment for your comfort?

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#187

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

johnday wrote: post #102
jcranberry wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do, with roads. The point GP was making that it's not feasible to convert roads into bowers.

On the other hand, it would be feasible to convert roads into normally-pedestrianised areas, which you need a permit or a one-day pass to drive through. There are numerous city centres in the UK which use this method. The central portion of Canterbury, Kent, is a great example.

Another alternative is allowing driving only at certain times, for example in Spain (and I guess in other places too) it's common to have pedestrianized areas with a few hours (say, from 8 to 10) where vans are permitted to enter for loading and unloading.

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#188

Post by bluescrn »

opportune wrote: post #115
journalctl wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean this really nicely: it is 100% out of the question for entire buildings or even just materials to be dropped into a construction site with drones. Also, how are you going to get large digging equipment in? Or things like wrecking balls?

Something like an Ibeam could, it would just require something closer in size/larger than a helicopter. A 50 foot Ibeam is a bit over 2 tons; a small modern military helicopter would be able to carry that easily. When I say drone I just mean a remotely controlled copter-thing, not specifically a small one. An entire building is less feasible unless it is small, but it could be done using modular components

Fleets of large and noisy helicopters hauling cargo over a city all day sounds way worse than regular road traffic...

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#189

Post by Kaiyou »

benj111 wrote: post #170
Razengan wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My dream is that one day most streets ... will be closed to car traffic and replaced with green space full of trees, flowers, children playing, and usable public space. While I share that dream, and rarely ever need a car myself, I cannot currently imagine a better alternative to having a personal car in your home for the following situations: • The most obvious: People who need to be chaperoned: children, the elde…

"The most obvious: the elderly and people with disabilities" Interesting you pick that as your first point, as this is an argument for the opposite. The 3 groups of people that can't drive, are these 2 and kids.

How do you move your eldery father to your home for christmas? You drive to him, get him in your car and drive him to your home.

Re: What happens when a city bans cars from its streets?

#190

Post by jakecopp »

isostatic wrote: post #180
Robotbeat wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put all the vehicles (of whatever type) underground.

Underground isn't an infinite space. Power, Sewers, basements, vaults, foundations, and existing tunnels. In London, building a new tunnel for crossrail involved threading a TBM through a gap with 80cm clearance (that's less than 2 cubits). The deeper you go, the wider the problems above, the more existing infrastrucutre is effected, not to mention the issues of how to return to the surface. Build decking over all th…

Are there any examples of this "decking" model that have worked?

What about all the businesses that occupied the old ground floor?

This multi layered fantasy seems to have been around since GM's world fair exhibit in 1939 at least [1], but I haven't seen it work.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futurama_(New_York_World%27s_F...

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