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No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

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Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#51

Wonder no more. Genesis 1:26-27 ESV Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." [27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

> So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him

That refers to free will (which humans have, but animals do not), not physical shape.

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#52
post #30

Wonder no more. Genesis 1:26-27 ESV Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." [27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

I'm a Christian, but I don't think that passage means human biology is based on God's. God the Father is clearly not in a physical form throughout the Bible. I believe that's why "graven images" are forbidden in the Ten Commandments, as they'd mislead people into thinking of him as a physical being. God the Father as depicted in the Bible is closer to an omnipresent, omniscient mind that runs the universe as a simula…

I found two verses in which a throne and clouds are related to God: Psalm 97:2 - "Clouds and darkness surround Him; Righteousness and justice are the foundation of His throne." Job 26:9 - "He covers the face of His throne, And spreads His cloud over it." Of course, I'd think that "throne" is used to evoke the idea of sovereignty rather than a literal throne. There's also the whole of Revelation—I won't try to interpret in a mere comment—but includes plenty of thrones and clouds such as in Revelation 14:14. And you can also find the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7:9-22

At the beginning of this post (starting from Begin digression), there's an exploration of anthropomorphic metaphors that might interest you: http://www.wall.org/~aron/blog/god-and-time-iv-impassibility...

Also, have you read The Everlasting Man by G.K. Chesterton? It has some ideas found in your comment regarding the Incarnation and it is overall a fun read.

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#53
post #46

What was the evolutionary pressure that made us intelligent - could it be ranged attack ? First, what I'm calling the Geo-Fermi Paradox - why are we the only intelligent animal on Earth? Sure, it has advantages - but other animals would gain those advantages too. So why didn't they become intelligent (or, at least, more intelligent) too? Sure, there was climate-change in Africa that rewarded adaptivity - but why didn…

This article glosses over it but I think the answer is cooking. Cooking took pressure off our digestive system which allowed us to stack it up vertically.

Richard Wrangham wrote a book on this "Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human"

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#54
Doesn't it have to do something with the "average" primate body plan? I really like highlighting the running aspect, since we truly seem to be record holders in endurance running, which was largely enabled by sweating. And since the primate body plan has upper limbs with significantly more freedom of motion compared to "running on 4" animals like deer, primates have to actively use many muscles to be able to put its weight on them (I am only familiar with the human skeleton in detail, but I assume primates have a similarly free scapula, while horses' are much more restricted, their first legs connect nearly vertically into it, making standing basically energetically free)

So, isn't bipedalism simply the energetically better way of locomotion for the primate body plan (look at other primates, they semi-walk on their lower limbs, only balancing with their hands - but they are not great at running and live mostly on trees so climbing is more important there)?

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have fairly poor fat insulation and we are hairless so it’s highly unlikely we have evolved in water. Fur combined with skin oils is a great insulator as it is a hydrophobic surface in which air bubbles get trapped proving very good insulation. Our skin is very porous and thin and gets soggy very quickly in water which makes it less grippy and weakens it. We also have terrible physique for swimming (hence why we n…

Take into account that babies swim underwater without any training, and children can see under water in the ocean (I used to be able to). I'd say modern life has made us less water - friendly. I also like the idea that consuming fish and shellfish contributed to our brain transformation, given omega 3 is highly beneficial for healthy brains.

Mammals swim other news in 10, we are terrible at it, babies have a pretty good buoyancy due to their mass to size ratio and fat percentage they however aren’t good swimmers what so ever and they don’t swim under water without training you can teach infants to swim but it’s not like they do freestyle out of the womb.

Shellfish have pretty much no omega 3 in them, cold water fish do which are hardly easy to catch in shallow waters.

Nuts and seed however are much richer in Omega 3 than most fish.

Again the aquatic ape theory does not stand up to any level of scrutiny pretty much any claim it makes can be disproven or attributed to other much likely factors it is pseudoscience in its purest form.

The truth is that AAH doesn't match the fossil record (or the fact that apes have been observed swimming even in the wild since it was proposed, the fact that in captivity apes develop similar or higher subcutaneous fat deposits to modern humans, and the average ape still has a higher body fat percentage than a human athlete).

Australopithecus afarensis (Lucy) circa 3.5Ma was bipedal, Australopithecus anamensis 4.2 Ma was bipedal as well albeit with primitive features for the upper body, Ardipithecus ramidus which is about 4.5 Ma had both habitual tree and bipedal adaptations (e.g. could stand upright and likely walk pretty well but had opposable big toes for grabbing at branches).

The earliest clear signs of modern bipedalism (as in a walking gait similar to that of modern humans) is around 3.7 Ma and it's not a skeleton but rather the Laetoli Footprints in Tanzania.

For the most part we had direct and "in-direct" ancestors for about 5 million years with varying degree of bipedalism, we likely haven't been eating seafood at for more than 200-300,000 based on remains found at various sites.

Lastly Shellfish which would be the easiest food source for the shallow water Aquatic Ape is one of the most common food allergies with 3-4% of the population suffering from it, and it causes Anaphylaxis in almost every case unlike other allergies which vary in severity. If we count in seafood allergy in general which includes finned fish then about 2.5% of the adult population suffers from it.

It's quite unlikely that a common food source that impacted our evolutionary path so greatly would have a fairly deadly allergy tied to it.

On the other hand humans are not allergic to mammalian meat (unless they are bitten by a few species of a tick and develop and Alpha-gal allergy) at all, and only in extremely rare cases are allergic to poultry.

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#56
post #45
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Christian, but I don't think that passage means human biology is based on God's. God the Father is clearly not in a physical form throughout the Bible. I believe that's why "graven images" are forbidden in the Ten Commandments, as they'd mislead people into thinking of him as a physical being. God the Father as depicted in the Bible is closer to an omnipresent, omniscient mind that runs the universe as a simula…

The image of God as a big man in the clouds comes from two sources: Renaissance paintings and The Simpsons. I'm not kidding. I've thought a lot about this. Another "in his image" interpretation I've heard is that it's something of a mistranslation. That it's more like "in his imagination" or "he imagined/conceived us" than "we look like him." That's the one I've always gone by, but I like your take too.

Surprisingly, you are right about the Renaissance paintings. Orthodox Christian icons almost never depict him. The so-alled Pantokrator icons depict regnant Jesus, the Son.

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#57
post #10
post #5

I like the water ape theory. ie we had a period of time in our history where we spent a lot of time in low lying water that encouraged us to stand upright. There's a few things which point in this direction. iirc we're the only primate which can control its breath; good for swimming under water. Our fingers wrinkle when we spend time in water; good for picking things up in water. And we lost our hair; hair may have g…

Seems like a stretch. We suck at swimming (compared to bears for speed or distance). The breath thing seems unlikely, polar bears for instance seem quite adept at swimming underwater. Hair doesn't seem an issue either, hair (assuming it's not knotted) doesn't easily catch on things, and hairy bears seem quite adept under water. Sure whales used to be hairy (and has some residual hair today), but that's more the lack…

Water ape theory doesn't suggest humans have to be great swimmers to survive at waterside areas. There's a lot of stuff to eat where the water is shallow as well as probably a ton of fruit on the trees near the coast. Bi-pedaling would help in spending a lot of time standing in the shallow waters looking down at river bottom. Humans nimble fingers help with finding and dealing with various shellfish that were probably crawling around in the bottom sludge.

The bulk of our hair is on the top of the head - the only place that would be burnt by the sun if you stay all day standing in shallow waters.

The shape of our nose (nostrils directed down) are made convenient to stand vertically without getting water into airways.

What is the picture of a paradise? A beach with a white sand, sun shining, clear blue water, lots of palm trees near the coast. This is because its our natural habitat. Not deep forests, not savannah. It's tropical beach!

If I was to be left alone and naked on an inhabited piece of land I would definitely choose a tropical beach out of all untouched locations on the planet, because it is the most likely place where I would be able to survive.

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#58
post #5

I like the water ape theory. ie we had a period of time in our history where we spent a lot of time in low lying water that encouraged us to stand upright. There's a few things which point in this direction. iirc we're the only primate which can control its breath; good for swimming under water. Our fingers wrinkle when we spend time in water; good for picking things up in water. And we lost our hair; hair may have g…

Except we really suck at swimming

That's fine. We were finding food in shallow waters, 1-2 meters deep.

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#59

What was the evolutionary pressure that made us intelligent - could it be ranged attack ? First, what I'm calling the Geo-Fermi Paradox - why are we the only intelligent animal on Earth? Sure, it has advantages - but other animals would gain those advantages too. So why didn't they become intelligent (or, at least, more intelligent) too? Sure, there was climate-change in Africa that rewarded adaptivity - but why didn…

> why are we the only intelligent animal on Earth?

Are other animals not intelligent? Are you sure we are intelligent?

I guess that the difference between apes and humans would be minuscule to the outside observer.

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#60
post #59

What was the evolutionary pressure that made us intelligent - could it be ranged attack ? First, what I'm calling the Geo-Fermi Paradox - why are we the only intelligent animal on Earth? Sure, it has advantages - but other animals would gain those advantages too. So why didn't they become intelligent (or, at least, more intelligent) too? Sure, there was climate-change in Africa that rewarded adaptivity - but why didn…

> why are we the only intelligent animal on Earth? Are other animals not intelligent? Are you sure we are intelligent? I guess that the difference between apes and humans would be minuscule to the outside observer.

if you are interested I have good article for you listing some differences between humans and animals http://staffwww.dcs.shef.ac.uk/people/A.Sharkey/2008-darwin....
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