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Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

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Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#281
post #225

> researchers presented both depressed and non-depressed participants with a button and a green light. They then asked the participants to figure out to what degree their responses (pushing the button) controlled that light. Depressed participants were much better at judging the degree of their control, while participants who weren't depressed tended to assume that they had more control over the light than they actua…

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Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#282

I'm not so depressed these days (thankfully) but this "realism" does tend to manifest is different ways. I'm very self-conscious about not dragging people down because some thoughts that I think daily that are normal for me, seem to be absolutely psychologically crippling for people who previously hadn't, or didn't want to think such things. Usually when I do express these thoughts they're in the form of semi-dark hu…

I've found a lot of correlation between this sort of sense of humour and the type of place I enjoy working at. Me and straight laced folk just don't get on. It doesn't work. There's an impedance mismatch whereby there are all of these invisible lines that I cross without even realising. Like yeah, dude, your job is bullshit. So is mine. Life is, and then you die. If you're not fucking around and having (harmless) fun…

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Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe the person is just an introvert or has sensory issues - then a fun party becomes a torture chamber. As me how I know.

Neutrally overstimmed and negatively stimmed are different though! If you’re just neutrally overstimmed you can find a quiet corner, another room with less noise and fewer people, or hang out on the porch. Negatively stimmed you won’t be able to be in or around the place at all. Depression or anxiety is a “general” upset, whereas overstimmed is a “local” upset.

That really makes no sense to me. Let me explain. Certain types of places / events are extremely distressing to me because of sensory factors. Now, when I have to attend a conference for work, I have extreme anxiety - the anxiety is caused because of the sensory distress I know I'll be facing. "Local" vs "general" doesn't seem to be a useful distinction for me. I could be misunderstanding you.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neutrally overstimmed and negatively stimmed are different though! If you’re just neutrally overstimmed you can find a quiet corner, another room with less noise and fewer people, or hang out on the porch. Negatively stimmed you won’t be able to be in or around the place at all. Depression or anxiety is a “general” upset, whereas overstimmed is a “local” upset.

That really makes no sense to me. Let me explain. Certain types of places / events are extremely distressing to me because of sensory factors. Now, when I have to attend a conference for work, I have extreme anxiety - the anxiety is caused because of the sensory distress I know I'll be facing. "Local" vs "general" doesn't seem to be a useful distinction for me. I could be misunderstanding you.

The anxiety is what I mean by general stress. I'd bet you probably suffer more from the anxiety about the sensory distress more than you do the sensory distress! I had a problem with this as well - the anxiety totally took over, and was much worse. Over time, I managed to keep the distress local to when I was actually feeling overwhelmed, and then could start to work to mitigate the sensory overload, by taking frequent breaks outside, wearing noise cancelling headphones, sunglasses, or finding quiet corners with fewer people.

Its not much of a problem for me anymore, and over time my senses have become a bit more fine tuned and won't be piqued by much more than very loud/unexpected sounds.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#285
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just learned about King Leopold and what he did to the people of Congo [1]. How anyone can be at all educated about the world and not be depressed is beyond me. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free...

At least that stuff is dying out.

It's not "dying out" -- people are working very hard to reduce it.

Sometimes we say things like "the world has changed" but the truth is that people have changed the world, through tremendous efforts.

It's easy for a bystander to say "the problem just seemed to go away!" when the people who are doing the work can stare at them and say, "Ahem... it didn't just go away."

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#286
post #82

I don't think it's the case that all depressed people are realists, but that realists in general may be more predisposed to depression or being depressed. It seems likely some people suffering from depression have real mental illness, and a much much smaller number of people are ultra realists and get depressed over real negative events and facts. I know there have been times in my life where I have suffered from dep…

Sorry for your loss, I've lost cats in the past and it sucks badly. If I may be of advice, don't let the loss put you down ("I'll never get a cat again because losing it is too much of a pain", been in the same situation) and when you feel ready get a new one. No, it won't take away the suffering of the loss, but you will slowly start to love the new one and find more motivation. About 16 years ago we lost a small ki…

Thanks for the kind comment.

I relate a lot to what you said about not wanting to own another pet to avoid loss. I love rodents but I won't own them anymore for that reason - they don't live that long and I hate losing them. I'm also on the spectrum which I think might make it a little more difficult for me. I know I stereotypically love animals, and I tend to get really attached to people and pets then struggle when I have to say goodbye.

I had my cat for 19 years so I knew it was coming for a while. I was really hoping he might make it to Christmas, but unfortunately not. He was one of the sweetest cats I've ever known and although it will take a bit of time, I know at some point I'll be ready for another cat, and I'm looking forward to that.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#287
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. They may be realistic about their circumstances. But they're not realistic about their ability to transform them.

Or they realistically assume that they have average ability but they have above average expectations. Most people will have to face the reality that they will never be special in some way, so if you aren't fine with just being another face among the masses you will be depressed. Or someone they care about just died, their expectations was that they would have this person for most of their life is now broken and nothi…

It's my operating hypothesis that people's abilities are generally limited mainly by their ways of being. Except for the few with physical and biochemical disabilities. And with general human limitations.

I mean, we're all familiar with "math anxiety". And the argument that women have generally been conditioned to think that they're bad at math. Or bad at spatial reasoning. Or that men are less empathetic, or better with tools, or whatever.

Consider scientific thinking. Based on my admittedly limited experience with young children, I believe that they're all scientists. For children in the "why phase", when I've actually taken time to help them consider how one might answer their questions, I've consistently been impressed.

Also, it's clearly not so much about having answers. Indeed, focusing too much on answers tends to stifle creativity.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#288

In other words: water is still wet. The world is a shitty place, deal with it.

Sure. It's also an amazing place. Focusing only on the negative aspect of the world is what causes a depressive mindset. Also, water isn't wet. Water makes thing wet. Step up your quip game ;)

The bear shit in the woods.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#289
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine flat earthers use GPS too and rationalise it somehow.

No different to "round-earthers" using technology which uses "flat earth" as a simplifying assumption in the design (hello! Google Maps). Neither party seems to want to acknowledge that the other party's model works just fine within its domain of applicability.

>Neither party seems to want to acknowledge that the other party's model works just fine within its domain of applicability.

There are two very different points here.

Yes you can make most of your daily actions with a "flat earth" model. Actually, this is even an overkill model for most daily actions. A first person video game generally don't include such a model, so you can extrapolate that a "sight sized box model" is enough, and that any concept of earth is superfluous.

Then you have the part of you that seek to find a model of the world through concordant items of evidence, be it for practical reasons or simply for the matter of trying to make sense out of them.

You can use a GPS without any specific opinion on physical models. But you won't even send a satellite in space with an attitude stuck into a "my flat earth model is true" belief. That doesn't mean physical models that are used to put satellite on orbits are true, but at least they proved accurate enough to lead to that kind of exploits.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your false dichotomy is that sure, your flat-earth approximation is fine, but only on basically personal scales (up to a few miles or so). You can't charactierize your loacl approximation as a general theory because it will fail as soon as you scale up to horizon effects, and breaks completely when reaching planetary scale. If you want to keep your flat theory in its applicable scale, fine. Just don't expect to proje…

You seem to be agreeing with me in a disagreeable tone. Instrumentalism [1] is precisely what I am rooting for. That's exactly what I said in my OP: "All scientific models are scale variant e.g contextual." >You can't charactierize your loacl approximation as a general theory The exact same criticism can be laid upon your local approximation. You have chosen precisely the scale at which your 'general model' works. An…

>The only hope for a 'general theory' is the Theory of Everything. We don't have one of those. Well, physicists don't - theists do.

What theist theory is supposed to provide a theory of everything[1]?

To my knowledge, theology don't bring any light on such a model.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_everything

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