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Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

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Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#131

Post by jron »

spookthesunset wrote: post #116
aeternum wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The increased electricity demand may drive research funding resulting in more efficient energy production.

LOL. Sure, but that is only being done because bitcoin gobbled up all the electricity that could have been used doing useful things like running data centers, smelting aluminum, air conditioning homes, etc. Bitcoin is a drain on the electrical system. You are basically arguing that it is okay to litter because it will create jobs and spawn new anti-litter technology. Doesn’t work that way, sorry.

I'll shutdown my bitcoin mining operation if you shutdown your AC. I find 21c living to be incredibly wasteful and a luxury only offered to those blessed to be born in the first world.

This type of argument goes nowhere fast.

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#132

Post by lukev »

The energy consumption of Bitcoin isn't new news. What continues to disappoint me, however, is how many people immediately jump to its defense with arguments based on the value it provides, as if that offset its cost.

What gets neglected is that the Bitcoin algorithm is inherently wasteful. By its very design, it results in an insane amount of duplicated, pointless computation.

The question isn't whether something like Bitcoin can provide any value. The question is whether we have better options. And the answer is: we do, by far. From proof-of-stake (like Ethereum is moving towards) or trust-based models (like Stellar), technologies exist that grant almost all the benefits of Bitcoin at tiny fraction of the environmental (and monetary!) cost.

I give Bitcoin credit for being an interesting "first answer" to an extremely hard problem. But it is in no way something that we should be doubling down on.

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#133

Post by ctdonath »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #40
dragontamer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wasteful compared to what though? How much energy, human capital, and resources are consumed by the banking industry? The article actually answers this to some degree. See the following graphic: https://i.imgur.com/8TdKevG.png

How much energy to mine an ounce of gold?

This is a good relevant question. Both are easily verified, impossible to duplicate, convenient value density, and (!) production correlates to increase of total world economic value.

As such, the question is interesting: how much energy required to produce one new ounce of gold? vs one bitcoin?

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#134

Post by solveit »

spookthesunset wrote: post #128
jron wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't a person on earth mining bitcoin with GPUs.

Tons are mining alt coins with them. These stories never include the rather sizable market for alt-coins, almost all of which use the same energy-sucking design that bitcoin does. I’ve never seen an article like this for the entire crypto space as a whole but I imagine it is much, much worse.

No, energy expenditure for bitcoin mining is larger than that of all altcoins combined. Despite the considerable technical innovations of some altcoins, bitcoin remains king in this world for now.

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#135

Post by KirinDave »

aeternum wrote: post #24
lucisferre wrote: post #4

This seems completely outrageous to me. I had seen similar numbers thrown around casually in the past but still found it hard to believe to be true, (despite being pretty bearish on Bitcoin myself). This seems to provide some pretty detailed evidence, analysis and validation directly addressing criticisms. It seems pretty thorough. Is there any more to discuss on the topic of Bitcoin being outrageously wasteful? Or i…

Wasteful compared to what though? How much energy, human capital, and resources are consumed by the banking industry? If (and big if) bitcoin is able to replace a significant fraction of the banking industry it will be extremely efficient in comparison. Per-transaction measures isn't the right metric since the Bitcoin blockchain can still be successful as a reconciliation backbone without being used for small everyda…

Bitcoin physically cannot scale to replace any substantial portion of the financial industry. That is a primary design feature of proof of work systems.

It's this wasteful at this level of scaling. That only gets worse.

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#136

Post by jron »

spookthesunset wrote: post #128
jron wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't a person on earth mining bitcoin with GPUs.

Tons are mining alt coins with them. These stories never include the rather sizable market for alt-coins, almost all of which use the same energy-sucking design that bitcoin does. I’ve never seen an article like this for the entire crypto space as a whole but I imagine it is much, much worse.

The energy consumption of the next closest altcoin is almost an order of magnitude less even with ASICs. After that, you'll find the security model of almost every altcoin to be total garbage (low energy consumption).

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#137

Post by donatj »

lukev wrote: post #132

The energy consumption of Bitcoin isn't new news. What continues to disappoint me, however, is how many people immediately jump to its defense with arguments based on the value it provides, as if that offset its cost. What gets neglected is that the Bitcoin algorithm is inherently wasteful . By its very design, it results in an insane amount of duplicated, pointless computation. The question isn't whether something l…

With energy becoming more and more renewable, does it really matter if BTC uses a lot of it?

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#139

Post by hndamien »

Bitcoin appears to be highlighting the issue of how we price dirty energy vs clean energy. There is nothing Bitcoin miners would like more than for all energy have the correlated carbon tax associated with it in the price.

Re: Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index

#140

Post by labster »

jron wrote: post #131
spookthesunset wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL. Sure, but that is only being done because bitcoin gobbled up all the electricity that could have been used doing useful things like running data centers, smelting aluminum, air conditioning homes, etc. Bitcoin is a drain on the electrical system. You are basically arguing that it is okay to litter because it will create jobs and spawn new anti-litter technology. Doesn’t work that way, sorry.

I'll shutdown my bitcoin mining operation if you shutdown your AC. I find 21c living to be incredibly wasteful and a luxury only offered to those blessed to be born in the first world. This type of argument goes nowhere fast.

Of course I can see. People’s sense of entitlement means we are all doomed. Mass extinction is always someone else’s fault, not my problem.
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