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Amazon Has Transformed the Hasidic Economy

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon Has Transformed the Hasidic Economy

#61

Post by joncrane »

supahfly_remix wrote: post #7

Does the Hasidic community have any advantages in the reseller market? With some of their traditional businesses, such as the diamond trade they do: evaluating gems, connections for sourcing stones, etc.

It's not so much an advantage as a drawback; big families led by people with no formal (in the what society expects sense; Talmudic study is quite formal) education and strict gender roles. They also have to drop everything and pray three times per day so I don't know how well that jives with "normal" career.

What I got out of it is they spend a lot of time doing intensive Talmud studies, and perhaps that teaches discipline and hones intellectual skills.

Then someone with this background finds themselves struggling to support their family and they realize that with some hustle, they can do it through Amazon.

I believe the only advantage is being near a large city so there's a lot of stuff available to buy at a discount. NYC is a very interesting city. The other possible advantage is that self-starting is an admirable trait amongst the Hasidim.

Re: Amazon Has Transformed the Hasidic Economy

#62

Post by joecool1029 »

fortran77 wrote: post #2

Buzz Feed News (yes!) covered this same story with much more sensitivity several weeks ago. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/leticiamiranda/amazon-o...

Understand that the way Buzzfeed covered it obscures the very real fact that there's a huge amount of controversy regarding this specific Satmar Hasidic community. This is not a question of Antisemitism, there have been very real issues directly caused by prominent rabbis within this community. These controversies are known to pretty much anyone in the NY metro area, so it makes sense that the NYTimes (being located in NYC and publishing in the nyarea section) would cover it in such a way.

They say this in the Buzzfeed article:

>But on an economic level, this commitment translates into a 28% poverty rate among Orthodox Jews in New York, according to the UJA Federation of New York. Many Orthodox Jews find employment at religious schools and rely on welfare to support their large families, which have an average of seven children.

This completely ignores that welfare fraud has been a perennial issue in the Lakewood [1] and Brooklyn [2] Hasidic communities. The community knows it can take advantage federal, state, and local programs so they do. The same community has issues with overt employment discrimination [3], and is also known for being one of the more vocal anti-vaxxer communities [4].

I deliberately chose local, Jewish, and official state sources to appeal to your sensitivities. I understand if you aren't from the area and/or have never associated with members of the Hasidic community so I encourage you to review and understand why the NYTimes article was written the way it was.

[1] https://www.app.com/story/news/investigations/watchdog/2018/...

[2] https://forward.com/news/351162/wealthy-orthodox-couples-cha...

[3] https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/ofccp/ofccp20170814

[4] https://forward.com/news/national/422354/hasidic-measles-out...

Re: Amazon Has Transformed the Hasidic Economy

#63

Post by mtnGoat »

Excel_Wizard wrote: post #27
undefined3840 wrote: post #9

I think there’s something about knowing you need to care for a large family (e.g. a member of a religion that values having lots of kids) that is motivating for entrepreneurs in a way I don’t always hear about e.g. entrepreneurial tendencies among Hasidic Jews and Mormons

(correlation isn't causation, but) fathers on average have a higher income than non-fathers. I can definitely imagine the increased urgency at work when you have more mouths to feed.

of they just don't want to be at home and put more hours in. :) kids, wife, etc can be hard for some.

i enjoy my home life with my family, but i know of a few other fathers that dont so much and purposefully work overtime.

Re: Amazon Has Transformed the Hasidic Economy

#64

Post by KoftaBob »

fortran77 wrote: post #56
AWildC182 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes it's just cool to see how people different from ourselves live their lives.

"Ourselves?" As a Litvack Jewish person who goes to a Hasidic Minyan some of "us" are those people. ;-)

"ourselves" as in from the perspective of the person writing that comment, people who are different than them. No need to get defensive.

Re: Amazon Has Transformed the Hasidic Economy

#65

Post by curiouscats »

dang wrote: post #31
helpPeople wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you. Mods currate the front page, so everything I read here seems like an advertisement.

We curate the front page for interestingness (see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ). Advertisement has nothing to do with it. If there's a class of articles you're seeing here consistently that you don't think gratifies intellectual curiosity, I'd like to know what they are. Usually the trouble is that users don't all share the same curiosity, but it's possible that we need to make a change somehow.…

Thanks, keep up the good work.

I agree with the other user that mentioned it would be nice to have some indication of hard or soft blocks. I realize that wouldn't be easy, especially to be completely accurate with, but even if it was done for a subset of sites that often appear it would be a nice feature.

Re: Amazon Has Transformed the Hasidic Economy

#66

Post by enjoyyourlife »

atonse wrote: post #53
fortran77 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They talk about the Hasidic community as if they were Martians.

Got any examples? I didn't see anything like that in the article.

"Alexander Rapaport... often serves as an informal guide for reporters to the insular Hasidic communities"

Re: Amazon Has Transformed the Hasidic Economy

#67

Post by markdown »

knicholes wrote: post #35
shoes_for_thee wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That'd be pretty to think so, but the wide majority of the Satmar community lives in poverty and is dependent on government benefits. The tendency towards entrepreneurship -- if there is one -- is more likely to be the result of being unwilling or unable to assimilate into a non-religious society. I can't speak for the LDSs, since I don't know them.

I grew up LDS my whole pre-adult life. There's a big focus on self-reliance. Also, the men are supposed to serve missions for two years (go teach about Jesus and the church). I imagine the skillset required to go door-to-door teaching people about something is very transferrable to other sales, which is very important when being an entrepreneur.

> Also, the men are supposed to serve missions for two years

Not just the men.

Re: Amazon Has Transformed the Hasidic Economy

#68

Post by tdfx »

joecool1029 wrote: post #62
fortran77 wrote: post #2

Buzz Feed News (yes!) covered this same story with much more sensitivity several weeks ago. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/leticiamiranda/amazon-o...

Understand that the way Buzzfeed covered it obscures the very real fact that there's a huge amount of controversy regarding this specific Satmar Hasidic community. This is not a question of Antisemitism, there have been very real issues directly caused by prominent rabbis within this community. These controversies are known to pretty much anyone in the NY metro area, so it makes sense that the NYTimes (being located…

I think anyone who is not familiar with these particular communities in Lakewood and Brooklyn will see warning flags of anti-semitism in a lot of related comments about them. I would just like to voice some support for the people speaking up about them, because this is not a problem with Jews, or even Orthodox Jews. It is specific to these particular Hasidic communities and the fraud is rampant and expanding.

Re: Amazon Has Transformed the Hasidic Economy

#70

Post by jf22 »

enjoyyourlife wrote: post #66
atonse wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got any examples? I didn't see anything like that in the article.

"Alexander Rapaport... often serves as an informal guide for reporters to the insular Hasidic communities"

Hasidic communities are extremely insular...
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