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Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

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Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#441

Post by rleigh »

alacombe wrote: post #433
snowflakeandrey wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes — if there were real competition between multiple app stores, some of which provided better systems of vetting than others (both for users and for developers), then the kinds of stores that had these policies would die off.

Then break-up is still not the solution. Microsoft didn't get split in the late 90's / early 2000's. Anti-trust case against Google / Apple seems far more appropriate and doesn't require new legislation. All in all, that whole "break-up" argument is just political white-knighting by wanna-be elites (ie. Warren & co).

I don't follow this line of reasoning at all. By all accounts, Microsoft should have been broken up. They were convicted of abusing their monopoly position in a court of law. It was a travesty of justice that it was not carried out. Had this happened, the new companies would have been vastly more competitive, and the current state of computing might have been much better.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#442

Post by h4waii »

Who do you trust more, to secure their infrastructure? Google or F-Droid / a bunch of volunteers who may or may not be very security-conscious?

Not to downplay the effort that F-Droid contributors (or any Android FOSS groups) make, but it's a very legitimate concern.

Would an attacker have an easier time infiltrating Google or a member of F-Droid the development community?

Are users of F-Droid higher value than users of Google Play, to warrant a direct attack? If one wants to pick off users who are fairly technically inclined, other developers, system administrators, etc...F-Droid is a pretty good place to start.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#443

Post by vsviridov »

h4waii wrote: post #442

Who do you trust more, to secure their infrastructure? Google or F-Droid / a bunch of volunteers who may or may not be very security-conscious? Not to downplay the effort that F-Droid contributors (or any Android FOSS groups) make, but it's a very legitimate concern. Would an attacker have an easier time infiltrating Google or a member of F-Droid the development community? Are users of F-Droid higher value than users…

At least read up on how f-droid does their reproducible build infrastructure before you spread FUD.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#444

Post by x220 »

lm28469 wrote: post #101
Santosh83 wrote: post #86

A general comment: the need of the hour is to educate the billions of 'ordinary' computer users about the basics of software, privacy, security and trust. We must not fall into the narrative being parroted around off-late that considers end-users as pretty much dumb content consumers who should not be expected to ever know even the minimum about the underlying tech and therefore every decision needs to be made for th…

> that considers end-users as pretty much dumb content consumers who should not be expected to ever know even the minimum about the underlying tech and therefore every decision needs to be made for them by a small minority of corporations, govts, and the tech elite acting as gatekeepers and overseers. That's what we do in every other domains, what's the difference here ?

With computers you can automate oppression.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#445

Post by anoncake »

kllrnohj wrote: post #394
anoncake wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nevertheless, rooting has artificial disadvantages due to "Safety"Net. So the situation on Android isn't acceptable either.

Blame the companies that want & use DRM, not the DRM provider. It's the same thing that happened on PC ages ago. If you don't like DRM, don't support games & apps that use DRM. Complaining to SecuROM that they are supplying market demand isn't useful. At least SafetyNet isn't a badly made rootkit that destroys your hardware and it's only real flaw is being semi-functional DRM.

> Blame the companies that want & use DRM, not the DRM provider.

I've got enough blame for everyone involved, don't worry.

> Complaining to SecuROM that they are supplying market demand isn't useful.

Appealing to the ethics of an entity that doesn't have any is not useful. But I wasn't writing to Google.

> At least SafetyNet isn't a badly made rootkit that destroys your hardware and it's only real flaw is being semi-functional DRM.

"Whatabout SecuROM"?

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#446

Post by behringer »

h4waii wrote: post #442

Who do you trust more, to secure their infrastructure? Google or F-Droid / a bunch of volunteers who may or may not be very security-conscious? Not to downplay the effort that F-Droid contributors (or any Android FOSS groups) make, but it's a very legitimate concern. Would an attacker have an easier time infiltrating Google or a member of F-Droid the development community? Are users of F-Droid higher value than users…

Easy answer. F-Droid.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#447

Post by root_axis »

snowflakeandrey wrote: post #386
jldugger wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think a breakup will change anything?

Yes — if there were real competition between multiple app stores, some of which provided better systems of vetting than others (both for users and for developers), then the kinds of stores that had these policies would die off.

How would breaking up google create multiple app stores? How would that actually work from a logistics perspective?

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#448

Post by Kalium »

esotericn wrote: post #429
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because Google or it's financial partners have compliance programs that require all money flows they enable go through the required regulatory channels. If an affiliated party is breaking regulations, you can often get in trouble by continuing to be associated with them once you're aware, and ignorance isn't a valid defense.

Oh do come off it. This is bureaucratic bullshit at its' finest. We're talking about a hyperlink in the app. Linking to wireguard.com would be fine. How about if wireguard.com had a big donate button? How about if wireguard.com has 'Donate' in bold? I know you're not the person actually signing off on this - but to the one that is - fuck you. In bold. No-one is getting sued because of one step being removed in a hype…

It's not a lawsuit that people are afraid of. It's potential action from financial regulators, who are famously inflexible and disinterested in being nice to open source software developers in genuine financial need.

Parties like Google and Apple are well aware of the potential consequences, and thus are similarly inflexible and disinterested in being nice to a fairly small group of use-cases that exposes them to an outsized amount of risk.

It's really, deeply unfortunate. It's incredibly painful for everyone who has to deal with this bureaucratic bullshit. Unfortunately, it being bullshit doesn't make it less real or less reasonable.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#449

Post by siruncledrew »

jrockway wrote: post #284

I am not sure why it needs to be called a donation. Just let the in-app purchase unlock some cosmetics in the app like games do. You weren't going to deduct the donation from your taxes anyway. I am curious how this ends up working out. Google takes a cut of the donations now... but the process of buying is probably easier. So maybe it will increase donation revenue, and make it easier to support free software. (Taki…

An easy way to let people know how to donate without links is just use plaintext on a page.

At the bottom of an “About” page:

Paypal: email-adress

Venmo: open-source-proj-maker

BTC/ETH:

If someone is not a 501(c)3 org and just a solo person, why do donations have to go through a particular website link?

It seems like the same thing (getting money) can be accomplished without needing to use links from an app.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#450

Post by jerrac »

After reading so many similar stories, here is what Google/Apple/etc should, in my opinion.

If an automated process blocks/bans/rejects something, then the message to the developer MUST say "Our automated scanner discovered..."

Any time something is blocked/banned/rejected, the message to the developer MUST explain exactly why. In the case of this article: "Your update was rejected due to a link to a third party payment system. This violates section N of our terms. The link we detected was ."

There should be two kinds of appeal processes. Automated, and manual. You should be able to appeal or resubmit to the automated process as often as you need to.

The manual process should involve real time communication between the developer and an appeal agent. Via phone or chat. To prevent the system from being overloaded, only allow developers a few free appeals, then start charging a fee.

Developer accounts should only be fully banned after multiple manual appeals and the appeals agent determining that the developer is operating in bad faith. Automated processes should never be able to fully ban an account. It must involve a real person. Full bans also must include a detailed email to the developer explaining exactly why they have been banned.

The biggest, and most important, change these companies really need to make is including exactly WHY something happened. No more of these general "you violated our TOS" without any explanation of how the TOS was violated messages.

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