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Make More Land

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Re: Make More Land

#91

Post by justinzollars »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #81

America has an attitude problem. It thinks it is already developed. Like, there is nothing left to do. That is the single biggest difference between the America of today and the America of the last century. The Netherlands feels more like India, in that everything is under a state of continual improvement all the time. The Netherlands is fantastically futuristic, though, and super nice (much more developed than most…

> America has an attitude problem

The older I get, the less it feels like America.

Re: Make More Land

#92

Post by beerandt »

davidw wrote: post #87
dr_dshiv wrote: post #81

America has an attitude problem. It thinks it is already developed. Like, there is nothing left to do. That is the single biggest difference between the America of today and the America of the last century. The Netherlands feels more like India, in that everything is under a state of continual improvement all the time. The Netherlands is fantastically futuristic, though, and super nice (much more developed than most…

Your comment reminds me of the Strong Towns concept of "built to a finished state". The idea that, say, a suburb gets built and it must stay in the form it was built in forever and ever, rather than, say, gradually gaining a few businesses, or some denser housing in more desirable locations.

I mean, this is basically what zoning was designed to do. For the most part, it's working as intended.

Re: Make More Land

#93

Post by tomjakubowski »

fiter wrote: post #78
bluGill wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology is not important. The reasons to prefer trains and subways are not the technology so much as most buses are running in the same lane as cars and so they have the same limitations. A bus in a truly dedicated lane would work just as well for most purposes, if only we cared about them. There are a couple advantages to trains/subways over buses, but for the most part they don't apply. They can be longer: have…

Even with a dedicated lane, there will still be more delays than with a grade separation (subway). Intersections are a bottleneck.

Not when buses get signal priority.

Re: Make More Land

#94

Post by tony_cannistra »

"The world is very large, and cities are a very small portion of it. The land we set aside for animals should be outside of cities, where far more land is available at far less impact to people"

Perform a thought experiment in which human systems are part of nature, not separate from it; that land isn't set aside for nature, but that nature is everywhere. This frame will encourage systematic thinking of the sort that at least more realistically contextualizes this land-filling exercise, and at most entirely invalidates the ideas underlying the practice.

To decimate such productive, sustaining landscapes is reckless, short-sighted, and perhaps even cruel––not only to natural systems which depend on them, but to us, who in turn depend on those systems.

Read Wendell Berry's "Wild and Domestic" on this, if you'd like: https://orionmagazine.org/article/wild-and-domestic/

Re: Make More Land

#95

Post by beerandt »

imgabe wrote: post #57
BurningFrog wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt any substantial part of the slowdowns are caused by improved worker safety. Yes there is a correlation between those two trends, but as we all know, that doesn't prove causation. We have enormously better technology today than in the 30s, and should be able to put of a skyscraper in 1/4 of the time. I understand that's more or less what China does.

But sometimes China has things like this happen: https://failedarchitecture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/22...

It's actually quite impressive that it managed to stay in one piece. It implies a scary-dangerous brittle failure mode for the structure, and horrible engineering, but still impressive.

Re: Make More Land

#96

Post by davidw »

beerandt wrote: post #92
davidw wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment reminds me of the Strong Towns concept of "built to a finished state". The idea that, say, a suburb gets built and it must stay in the form it was built in forever and ever, rather than, say, gradually gaining a few businesses, or some denser housing in more desirable locations.

I mean, this is basically what zoning was designed to do. For the most part, it's working as intended.

Yeah, unfortunately, for values of 'working' that signify huge costs for people, cities and the environment.

Re: Make More Land

#97

Post by jackcosgrove »

There are people who dream of terraforming Mars, and there are people who object to filling in the southern end of San Francisco bay. And I wouldn't be surprised if there is some overlap between the two groups.

Re: Make More Land

#98

Post by drewcon »

lkbm wrote: post #83
ninth_ant wrote: post #17

That’s a pretty big project to propose to protect the “character of neighborhoods” for the benefit of the already wealthy! How about instead just build densely on the land that already exists in cities? And not pave over the bay?

How's that plan going? Political feasibility is relevant when deciding what to do. It doesn't matter which solution is best. It matters which solution we can actually make happen is best. Personally, I doubt the political feasibility of paving over the bay, but it seems like telling rich people to get over their selves isn't working either.

This. Telling that it’s arguably less of a lift to fill in 50 square miles of the bay vs. rewrite zoning with some practical common sense updates.

Re: Make More Land

#99

Post by eranima »

jackcosgrove wrote: post #97

There are people who dream of terraforming Mars, and there are people who object to filling in the southern end of San Francisco bay. And I wouldn't be surprised if there is some overlap between the two groups.

That's not really a fair comparison.

Re: Make More Land

#100

Post by jzunit »

Makes too much sense to work in California. If something so sensical could be accomplished, SF would have built more housing by now.
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