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A History of Pizza

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Re: A History of Pizza

#61

Post by L_226 »

m-i-l wrote: post #58
L_226 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in Naples a few weeks ago I was told that the Margherita variant was created by the wife of the chef who added a single basil leaf onto the completed pizza. This pizza was served to the royal couple, where the queen (Margherita) was so taken by the creation that the chef decided to name it in her honour. Also, the flag of Italy was only adopted in the mid 1940's, and Queen Margherita was around about 100 y…

According to the original article, the Margherita pizza was invented after Italian Reunification: "All that changed after Italian unification. While on a visit to Naples in 1889..." I'm not a vexillologist (expert on flags) but looking at the historical flags at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_flags#Unificat... there are many from 1889 that have the green, white and red, e.g. the state flag of the Kingd…

Fair enough, I stand corrected.

Re: A History of Pizza

#62

Post by zambal »

mackey wrote: post #52
zeitg3ist wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pizza on that page looks extremely greasy and - most importantly - burned! Hope it's not representative of New Haven pizza in general.

It's not burned, its charred. And that is New Haven style. It's pretty good.

English is not my native language, but to me charred is a type of burned?

Re: A History of Pizza

#63

Post by m-i-l »

L_226 wrote: post #61
m-i-l wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the original article, the Margherita pizza was invented after Italian Reunification: "All that changed after Italian unification. While on a visit to Naples in 1889..." I'm not a vexillologist (expert on flags) but looking at the historical flags at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_flags#Unificat... there are many from 1889 that have the green, white and red, e.g. the state flag of the Kingd…

Fair enough, I stand corrected.

Actually the link SamBam has provided, i.e. to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_colours_of_Italy , explains the tricolour better. It also says "An apocryphal story about the history of pizza holds that on 11 June 1889, Neapolitan pizzamaker Raffaele Esposito created a pizza to honour Margherita of Savoy, who was visiting the city. It was garnished with tomatoes, mozzarella, and basil to represent the national colours of Italy, and was named 'Pizza Margherita'".

Re: A History of Pizza

#64

Post by RandallBrown »

izietto wrote: post #13
dr_dshiv wrote: post #8

Boo, no mention of New Haven's early contribution. Not that I'm biased (I am, they have the best pizza in the world, objectively speaking, of course) http://www.ctvisit.com/articles/new-haven-apizza-history

Maybe the best pizza in the United States . I'm Italian, the classic United States pizza could hardly be called "pizza" here, since it's not risen enough for being a pizza.

I've never had pizza in Italy, but I've had pizza from places in the US certified by Vera Pizza Napoletana.

It's truly delicious... and nowhere near my favorite pizza in the US.

Re: A History of Pizza

#65

Post by lqet »

wirrbel wrote: post #59

There is a lot of mysticism over the origin of Pizza. In fact, it's probably a very straightforward kind of dish that probably has been invented multiple times, of course with varying toppings and maybe a few other differing ideals. Basically if you have a wooden oven to bake bread, baking is risky. If the oven is too hot, the bread will become burnt before being thoroughly baked within, if you put it in too late, th…

This. My great-grandmothers all used to bake bread in the village Backhaus once a week, and the oven temperature was always checked by baking something pizza-like, for example a crude Salzkuchen [0], which is basically a very thin Quiche, or just a flat portion of dough which was eaten without or with a cold topping. I guess that basically every culture which developed baking skills has one or multiple dishes which resemble a Pizza.

[0] http://www.ebbi-world.de/brot/salz-kuchen-stueck.jpg

Re: A History of Pizza

#66

Post by ryanlol »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #40
ryanlol wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it always pineapple in pizza? Why not lemon for example? I don’t understand the whole pineapple pizza lobby, it’s just not a particularly good fruit for pizza.

The contrasting taste of Pineapple and Ham does work well in my opinion.

Have you tried lemon (somewhat caramelized) and ham? :P

Re: A History of Pizza

#67

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

lqet wrote: post #46
lordnacho wrote: post #19

The abomination created by putting pineapple on pizza is either Canadian or German: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_pizza Dig a bit more and it seems the German claim is a bit stronger. The postwar years were difficult in Europe.

Afaik this goes back to the Toast Hawaii, which was invented by Clemens Wilmenrod, a TV cook in 1950ies Germany, and quite an interesting figure. He had no training as a cook at all, but presented his strange creations as an exotic culinary experience. Basically, when you put cooked ham, pineapple, cheap cheese and a cherry on toast in the 50ies and 60ies in Germany, you presented yourself as a cosmopolitan. He welco…

> Toast Hawaii

That's interesting to know.

I recently saw this dish on a TV show set in 1950s Germany, and I had questions about it. Starting with "wat?" and "But why?" and "was that really a treat?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toast_Hawaii

Re: A History of Pizza

#68

Post by mackey »

zambal wrote: post #62
mackey wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not burned, its charred. And that is New Haven style. It's pretty good.

English is not my native language, but to me charred is a type of burned?

It was partly a joke, it's somewhat of a touchy subject for those that love New Haven style pizza. People that don't care for that style often called it burned, and fans of new haven style pizza are quick to "correct" them.

With a coal fired pizza, the goal is to get a bit of black on the outside, a crispy crust with a fluffy inside.

Re: A History of Pizza

#69

Post by fumar »

globuous wrote: post #15
izietto wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the best pizza in the United States . I'm Italian, the classic United States pizza could hardly be called "pizza" here, since it's not risen enough for being a pizza.

I agree with you, though nyc pizza is actually really good (thin crust which tastes good and good ingredients)!! Im no italian, but as a frenchy that loved to tell americans how bad their pizzas are, i must tell that shut me up. Chicago pizza and its dip dish really on the other hand, was one of the biggest deception of my life ^^ But i’ll definitely agree - i find your typical usa pizza (HUGE crust, terrible ingredi…

The true Chicago pizza that is more ubiquitous in the region than deep dish is Tavern style pizza. It is a cracker style crust, sweeter sauce, cheese to edge of the crust, and cut in squares. It also best well-baked. https://www.bonappetit.com/story/real-chicago-pizza-tavern-s... Check it out next time your in Chicago.

Re: A History of Pizza

#70

Post by lqet »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #67
lqet wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afaik this goes back to the Toast Hawaii, which was invented by Clemens Wilmenrod, a TV cook in 1950ies Germany, and quite an interesting figure. He had no training as a cook at all, but presented his strange creations as an exotic culinary experience. Basically, when you put cooked ham, pineapple, cheap cheese and a cherry on toast in the 50ies and 60ies in Germany, you presented yourself as a cosmopolitan. He welco…

> Toast Hawaii That's interesting to know. I recently saw this dish on a TV show set in 1950s Germany, and I had questions about it. Starting with "wat?" and "But why?" and "was that really a treat?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toast_Hawaii

> "But why?"

Perfectly valid question. One thing that is true is that it is extremely easy to prepare for many people. When I was a child in the 90ies, we often ate Toast Hawaii at my grandparents at birthday parties. Just open a pack of toast, a can of pineapple, a pack of ham and a pack of cheese, place it on top of each other, put it in the oven, done.

> "was that really a treat?"

As a child, I never liked it, and even the generation of my parents did not really enjoy it and preferred a more sane toast topping. But the postwar generation swore on it. Keep in mind that the country was basically in ruins after WW2. That you were able to afford (or even get) canned pineapples in the 50ies again was kind of a sensation, so I guess they still ate it in the 90ies out of nostalgia.

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