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Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

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Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#231

Post by fooqux »

SamBam wrote: post #198
lern_too_spel wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Google phones and Android One devices have unlockable bootloaders.

Rooting the Pixel 2 (I haven't tried the other Pixels) is not trivial for the average user, it still involves downloading third-party software and doing stuff on the command line. I had hoped that the pure-Google devices would have just had a switch: "I am now root," but alas it wasn't to be.

I don't believe that is correct. All you need is adb and the various Android command line tools. Those are all first party. If you downloaded a third party tool to make it easier, that's fine I guess, but it's not a requirement.

Some of this I can understand. Root permissions does introduce some additional security considerations. We haven't fixed this in decades of computer usage in a way that preserves security, ease of use, and giving people easy access under the hood.

My mother would click any number of scary UAC prompts in Windows just to get to the webpage she's trying to get to. That's not Windows' fault, but it is reality.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#232

Post by scarface74 »

brewdad wrote: post #227
scarface74 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I sell a product within any retail store and sell it without the retailer getting a cut?

The Girl Scouts sell cookies at the front door of grocery stores with an entire aisle dedicated to cookies. The stores give them permission to do so knowing the goodwill outweighs any loss in Oreo sales. Google could make the same choice but doesn't for some reason.

How many shoppers know or care about Girl Scouts compared to the number of mobile phone users who know or care about open source?

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#233

Post by rjzzleep »

panpanna wrote: post #212
Pxtl wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say, I'm really disappointed how few open-source projects are even on F-Droid. It feels like every time I hear about a new OSS android app, I look for it on F-Droid and find it's only on the Play Store.

It's partially on fdroid. It's not always trivial to submit new apps and ensure it compiles correctly on their build servers. Same goes for updates, which can be silently dropped due to any number of tool issues. If you are a front or backend developer please consider investing a weekend or two helping fdroid improve their systems.

Are these issues documented anywhere? Otherwise it's kinda hard to fix.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#234

Post by Fnoord »

Can we just stop distributing "donation-ware" FOSS and use F-Droid for that instead? It is not as if Google Play Store is a credible source anyway given all the hostile content (for both privacy and security). Today I learned they even remove the orig. signature [1]

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21268717

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#235

Post by dessant »

Google Play In-app Billing does not support donations [1], so open source developers should be allowed to link to their own donation pages. Google Play policies do not spell out that linking to donation platforms such as Patreon is forbidden.

Disallowing developers from using in-app billing for donations, while also barring them from linking to external donation platforms, puts open source projects in a difficult position, and appears to be overly hostile towards funding open source development.

Google must clarify their position on whether they allow donation links in apps published on Google Play. The app takedowns [2] of the last few days show that this is a significant development, and it is of great importance for all open source developers.

It's best to publicly document the messages you receive during app takedowns, since app store policies are often vague, it's easy for reviewers to make mistakes, and having a clear reference for these decisions also helps the public assess the validity of the takedown.

[1] https://play.google.com/about/monetization-ads/

> Here are some examples of products not currently supported by Google Play In-app Billing:

> One time-payments, including peer-to-peer payments, online auctions, and donations.

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21268389

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#236

Post by ganeshkrishnan »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #184
Santosh83 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one aspect and admittedly Android is better than Apple, but the other aspect (and more fundamental) is the ability to gain root on the system and do whatever you wish, and here both Google and Android (in the former case if not Google themselves then all the 3rd party Android vendors) lock down their devices. Rooting through exploits is not an acceptable solution.

All Google phones and Android One devices have unlockable bootloaders.

Unlocking bootloader is not the same as rooting.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#237

Post by gravypod »

lm28469 wrote: post #202
jkilpatr wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In every other field people are reasonably held responsible for their failures. As a service tech if I fill a car with tomato sauce instead of oil I pay for the car. As a programmer I can sell all the users data, leak it to hacks, then laugh all the way to the bank. As a furniture salesman I can requirements on materials transparency. If I break those I'm liable. As a programmer I can totally change the rules of my a…

In which country are developers above the law ?

In every country the ruling party does not understand technology. It's very difficult to regulate something you don't understand.

The back door encryption thing is a fun example of this.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#238

Post by zentiggr »

CountHackulus wrote: post #211
krageon wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who should not be expected to ever know even the minimum about the underlying tech I have worked in this industry for long enough to know that even assuming a minimum of knowledge at all is a bad idea. You can fight this fight as you want, but this comment has nothing in it to convince be otherwise.

Why do you think this? It's a pretty bold statement.

(12 years of corporate IT support experience and 40 years working with tech in general)

Because it's human nature to only care about details that you believe you need to know in order to manage some part of your life.

If you don't see a clear and immediate value in learning something, you won't. No matter what anyone else says or does to try and convince you, you won't.

Then you get burned by something you didn't know, and there's a 50/50 chance you'll learn about it then, and only if you're convinced that it's something YOU have to do, that can't be managed for you.

And most people resent having to learn that much.

I no longer try to convince anyone of anything tech related. And rarely answer much when I am asked, unless I can see that the person is truly interested, not just curious about some buzzword.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#239

Post by anoncake »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #184
Santosh83 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one aspect and admittedly Android is better than Apple, but the other aspect (and more fundamental) is the ability to gain root on the system and do whatever you wish, and here both Google and Android (in the former case if not Google themselves then all the 3rd party Android vendors) lock down their devices. Rooting through exploits is not an acceptable solution.

All Google phones and Android One devices have unlockable bootloaders.

Nevertheless, rooting has artificial disadvantages due to "Safety"Net. So the situation on Android isn't acceptable either.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#240

Post by drcoopster »

codazoda wrote: post #213
lovelearning wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android/Google don't make it easy though. Installing an APK requires a security setting change. Search results for "install f-droid on android" on google are very unhelpful for a general user compared to search results from DDG or Bing.

I've never used f-droid, but decide to try it on my (original) Pixel XL. I clicked "Download" and the file saved. I pulled down the top drawer and opened the file with "files". I clicked the APK and got a security warning with a link to the exact "settings" page where I change it. I clicked the security option off. I returned to files and clicked the APK again and it installed. This is very wordy and sounds a bit com…

This requires users actually reading warnings and messages, which we know they don't do.
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