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Make More Land

jefftk.com

11–20 of 279 posts

Re: Make More Land

#11
post #4

“... allowing people to live closer in is the most powerful way to address sprawl.” “ The second biggest is that BART doesn't have enough coverage to make living without a car practical in most of the area. ” I don’t know about the land, maybe it’s a good idea. However, this really comes down to building better mass transit. “Closer” doesn’t need to mean distance, it could also mean time. Could Oakland be turned into…

Better mass transit needs straight lines to run on more than density. When the bus has to go down every long cul-de-sac nobody will ride because the bus takes so long, when it doesn't few people ride because of the long walk to the bus. If developments has more long straight streets down the middle there wouldn't be a long walk to a bus that runs a reasonable route.

As you said, closer isn't a measure of only distance it is also a measure of time. If the transit system can isn't too far to walk to, runs often enough that people don't worry about when it comes, and doesn't waste time going places the rider don't want to go: people will take it. When transit is inconvenient to get to, doesn't run when/were individuals want to go, or takes too long to get there: people won't take it.

Fixing that isn't easy though. Roads/streets need to be designed for transit. Enough people need to ride that the system isn't mostly empty. It needs to go more or less direct routes to where people want to go, not take long detours to other destinations. Only the middle depends on density at all, if you fail the other two density won't give your transit systems many riders. Pass the other two and you can still get a lot of riders despite not being very dense.

Re: Make More Land

#13
Cheaper solutions;

- High speed rail through the mountains to places like Modesto, Keyes etc.

- More building up in Oakland, Richmond

- Allow more remote work

- Second headquarters in other major cities

Re: Make More Land

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not want to take a wager on whether this sort of project could be done in San Francisco. China, I am certain, could do it. If it were an Army Corps of Engineers project on the Mississippi or the deep South, I'd give it 50-50 odds. We do seem to have no ability to do any sort of large scale projects. They built the Empire State Building in under a year in the 1930s, and meanwhile it's taken ten and counting to…

I agree with your general point, but it's worth mentioning 2 points on the Empire State Building example: 1) Depending on where you draw the line for starting the ESB, it was 16 months. 2) Look at building sites in NYC today (which can still build skyscrapers effectively), and compare them with pictures from the 30s. MUCH better health and safety, both for workers and nearby pedestrians. At least 5, and as many as 14…

Fourteen people dying to lay ten and a quarter million bricks and thousands of tons of steel is not much of a butcher's bill.

I'd bet that more people would die in car accidents getting to the work site over the extended construction time today.

Re: Make More Land

#15
Seems to me to be the usual un-environment friendly corporate drivel. We don't need more people in San Francisco. They are the 13th ranked city by density in the USA.

"The world is very large, and cities are a very small portion of it. The land we set aside for animals should be outside of cities, where far more land is available at far less impact to people."

Re: Make More Land

#17
That’s a pretty big project to propose to protect the “character of neighborhoods” for the benefit of the already wealthy!

How about instead just build densely on the land that already exists in cities? And not pave over the bay?

Re: Make More Land

#18
> This part of the Bay is primarily industrial salt ponds.

For the record, the industrial salt ponds are actually very beautiful. The fact that they are salt ponds is not actually a refutation to the 'but you're destroying beauty' argument.

Re: Make More Land

#19
post #2

The more pressing question: Can we actually still do such projects in western democracies? How long would it take until the last judge has dismissed the plea to save the nearly extinct Californian Pink Stink Beetle that by circumstance breeds in that area? How much more expensive would the project become over its ever longer runtime? What will happen when the seemingly inevitable corruption scandals are brought to da…

I think we still do these projects all the time, in cities of a certain development level, for the same reason we always did them: industry lobbying. This land was, almost always, reclaimed by heavy industry, for industrial use; and only later, once that industry no longer had need of it (and was being gentrified out of the area entirely) was the land re-zoned for other uses and “finished off” as a public works project.

Residential or commercial developers have never been given authorization to reclaim coastline, AFAIK. And governments very rarely do it themselves, save for when they’re essentially serving the role of an infrastructure provider to some later industry (e.g. an airport.)

Re: Make More Land

#20

Seems to me to be the usual un-environment friendly corporate drivel. We don't need more people in San Francisco. They are the 13th ranked city by density in the USA. "The world is very large, and cities are a very small portion of it. The land we set aside for animals should be outside of cities, where far more land is available at far less impact to people."

A million dollars will buy a few square feet of land in San Francisco. In the middle of nowhere it can buy a square mile. Humans might prefer the former, but most other species would prefer the latter.
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