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Magic Mushrooms Can Help Smokers Kick the Habit

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Re: Magic Mushrooms Can Help Smokers Kick the Habit

#41
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From my political position it’s personally insulting that institutions such as the DEA and FDA tell me what I can and cannot put into my body. I'm of two minds about that. While I agree that I ought to have full autonomy over my own body, at the same time the state has a vested interest in not allowing its population to fall victim to life-destroying drugs, especially when those drugs target the most vulnerable mem…

There's a path to getting people off hard drugs like heroin that the war on drugs doesn't address at all, in fact it exacerbates it. Getting people off hard drugs is not the intended outcome, the war on drugs fills up private prisons with inmates and generates a lot of money. https://www.mic.com/articles/20186/war-on-drugs-how-private-...

To be clear, nothing in my comment suggested I support the war on drugs and mass incarceration, rather it was whether the state should have any "say" in my putting hard drugs in my body.

Re: Magic Mushrooms Can Help Smokers Kick the Habit

#42
post #28
post #20

I think it’s clear that there is a push for magic mushrooms to follow the same path as Cannabis has. It’s very hard to fight the war on drugs (from a personal liberty standpoint) one drug at a time. From my political position it’s personally insulting that institutions such as the DEA and FDA tell me what I can and cannot put into my body. I’m an adult, I can either make those decisions for myself or hire experts for…

> It’s very hard to fight the war on drugs (from a personal liberty standpoint) one drug at a time. I think it’s really easy to have a different stance based upon the actual drug. I have no issues with marijuana and at no point in my life have feared of being robbed by someone trying to score money for a joint. But change that to heroin or meth and it’s a whole different situation.

If heroin and meth were "legal" in the sense of they being freely dispensed in special places and surely taken under supervision, you'd see a lot less violence caused by its users. That could be the starting point to get people off drugs, the same places could have get off drugs programs. The problem is that nobody really cares and the war on drugs causes more problems than it creates.

Re: Magic Mushrooms Can Help Smokers Kick the Habit

#43
post #28
post #20

I think it’s clear that there is a push for magic mushrooms to follow the same path as Cannabis has. It’s very hard to fight the war on drugs (from a personal liberty standpoint) one drug at a time. From my political position it’s personally insulting that institutions such as the DEA and FDA tell me what I can and cannot put into my body. I’m an adult, I can either make those decisions for myself or hire experts for…

> It’s very hard to fight the war on drugs (from a personal liberty standpoint) one drug at a time. I think it’s really easy to have a different stance based upon the actual drug. I have no issues with marijuana and at no point in my life have feared of being robbed by someone trying to score money for a joint. But change that to heroin or meth and it’s a whole different situation.

Wouldn’t heroin/meth be significantly cheaper if it was legal?

Re: Magic Mushrooms Can Help Smokers Kick the Habit

#44
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I look forward for the US to decriminalize all drugs. I’m Mexican and I live near the border, I’ve seen every day for the last 10 years how cartels gain power with all the money sent from US consumers. That money and power has corrupted not only police and politicians, but also some sectors of the population, drugs and narcos used to be anathema to most people, now they are part of our pop culture, thanks to news, TV…

> I look forward for the US to decriminalize all drugs. Is there evidence to prove that legal cocaine/meth/heroin being readily available for citizens would be good for society?

[deleted]

Re: Magic Mushrooms Can Help Smokers Kick the Habit

#45

Awesome. So the last two years I have asked people if they know anyone with shrooms, I really wanted to quit dipping (Copenhagen tobacco), been dipping for 15 years, and heard this really works. No one I knew had any leads, not really shocked by that. But I quit dipping anyways, about 6 months ago. Moral of the story: sometimes your friends don't have illegal drugs and you have to suck it up and do right things the h…

I like how a lot of the comments assumed you are European since you chew Copenhagen, a US smokeless tobacco company brand.

Re: Magic Mushrooms Can Help Smokers Kick the Habit

#46
post #43
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s very hard to fight the war on drugs (from a personal liberty standpoint) one drug at a time. I think it’s really easy to have a different stance based upon the actual drug. I have no issues with marijuana and at no point in my life have feared of being robbed by someone trying to score money for a joint. But change that to heroin or meth and it’s a whole different situation.

Wouldn’t heroin/meth be significantly cheaper if it was legal?

Yes, it would be. But it wouldn't be a good idea to let it be freely available on the streets. Being easily accessible and taken under supervision in special places it would be a start.

Re: Magic Mushrooms Can Help Smokers Kick the Habit

#47
Why are they called "magic" mushrooms? Because they remind you that life is, in a sense that we rarely recognize, truly magical. We can adopt the materialist lens and say that they "rewire your brain" -- and in a certain sense, that's of course true. But the crucial point is that experientially, you discover firsthand that life is precious beyond belief -- beyond what the rational mind can contain -- and if cigarettes (or depression...) aren't helping you express that transcendent truth, well, bye bye. And that's not something you easily forget.

(And on a grander scale, if our modern way of living isn't helping life thrive, well, maybe it's time to make some loving changes. So I'm glad this research is being done.)

Re: Magic Mushrooms Can Help Smokers Kick the Habit

#48
post #16

A similar story, with a sample size of one - me. Smoking marijuana helped me quit smoking cigarettes. One of the reasonably well known side effects of smoking pot is sometimes a feeling of intense paranoia. Well, over a period of a few months, I was regularly smoking pot in the evenings and convinced myself that smoking cigarettes would kill me and while stoned I was able to exaggerate these feelings to the point of…

How did you quit heavy cannabis usage?

I moved to another country where I didn't have the same network of friends and contacts. Basically, changed my environment and was busy setting up a new life.

I didn't move to another country to give up cannabis, it was just a happy co-incidence.

Re: Magic Mushrooms Can Help Smokers Kick the Habit

#49
post #20

I think it’s clear that there is a push for magic mushrooms to follow the same path as Cannabis has. It’s very hard to fight the war on drugs (from a personal liberty standpoint) one drug at a time. From my political position it’s personally insulting that institutions such as the DEA and FDA tell me what I can and cannot put into my body. I’m an adult, I can either make those decisions for myself or hire experts for…

I'm also for increased drug legalization, but it's important to keep in mind the counter-balancing points as well.

Lots of adults will make very poor decisions when presented with the easy opportunity to do so, at least at certain critical times. People fall on bad times routinely (job loss, death in the family, etc) and can quickly find themselves hopeless and/or depressed. In a completely unregulated environment, these bad episodes of life can quickly escalate into serious (e.g. heroin) addiction problems and spiral out of control with devastating long-term effects first on the individual, and then increasingly on everyone around them and the entirety of society.

There's the obvious and immediate costs like ER visits, violence, police calls, etc. There's also the secondary impacts: the devastating impact on friends and family (who may also fall into the same hole as a result), any children of the now-addicted, etc. All of this rolls up into big-picture economic costs and "fabric of society" issues as well.

I have a streak of independence and self-determination in me as well, but it's fallacious to think that there aren't significant tertiary negative effects on others when I do misguided things, and making it super-easy for me to do so at my weakest points in life isn't a winning idea. This is the ethical basis for societal/government regulation of "dangerous" activities and items.

You can see a mirror of these same issues in the gun control debate as well. A bunch of responsible adults reasonably don't want the government telling them they're not allowed to responsibly own firearms and make their own decisions about what firearms they own for what purpose. They can make those decisions for themselves and it doesn't hurt anybody, because they are responsible adults.

But, as above, one has to consider that some small percentage of these responsible adults will eventually have a bad mental health day (or week, or month) and things will spiral out of control. Or they'll make a simple mistake and the gun is stolen by another, or discovered by a curious child or a very upset teenager. These are dangerous items and misuse (or even minor human error in controlling access) can have huge negative societal impacts. Thus, it's ethical for society to take an interest in regulating them.

In both cases (and so many others) the magic is in finding good healthy balance, and realizing of course that law and policy can't prevent all possible harm. Banning all the guns and drugs in the country is obviously not the right answer, and neither is wiping all regulation off the books and letting everyone walk drunkenly into their local corner store and pick up a loaded M-16 and a pound of meth for $20 whenever they feel like it. Developing a good regulation regime that's reasonably-protective and also minimally intrusive on peoples' rights is hard work; much harder than soundbite-happy bans.

Re: Magic Mushrooms Can Help Smokers Kick the Habit

#50

A similar story, with a sample size of one - me. Smoking marijuana helped me quit smoking cigarettes. One of the reasonably well known side effects of smoking pot is sometimes a feeling of intense paranoia. Well, over a period of a few months, I was regularly smoking pot in the evenings and convinced myself that smoking cigarettes would kill me and while stoned I was able to exaggerate these feelings to the point of…

We're you worried the Cigarettes would pick up a knife and kill you? Because that would be paranoid. Thinking they'd kill you with cancer sounds reasonable.

When not high, I could rationalise that cancer fact the same way many other smokers probably do. When stoned, I focused on that fact and made myself paranoid about it.
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