Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

vice.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 304 posts

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#121

Post by hippich »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #14

I see this as sort of the main riddle (or catch-22 if you're the pessimistic type) of life. The semi-unrealistic hope of optimism is what motivates us to get things done. For the HN crowd, consider startup founders. The vast majority of startups fail, yet virtually all founders go into it overestimating their chances of success. After all, if they were realistic about their chances, they'd find the whole business too…

I am pessimistic by nature + I've seen and experienced a lot of failures. I still go into startups, but I account for likely failures by allocating resources in a way where I will not be wiped out in case of likely failure.

I guess such optimism/pessimism can be different on different levels? I.e. "Chances of that idea to work out are nearly nil, but if I allocate a non-critical amount of resources it is worth a try as if it will work out - it will be great"? Basically I am pessimistic about the chances of a startup working out, but I am very optimistic about upside if, in a very unlikely event, the idea does work. Optimistic - because idea can work, but still be a crappy result, which honestly, did happen. I.e. it sorta works, but not quite big enough payoff, requiring me to maintain it without a clear path forward. In such scenarios, I usually just slowly cut resources to it as my interest wanes over time, but I still have quite a few websites/domains from 10+ years ago which I can't push myself just to not renew one day...

EDIT: and as another person mentioned, as I accumulate more wealth, I try out more ideas indeed. But honestly, I am no more optimistic about these. Just the ability to invest allows me to try more things without jeopardizing future of my family. The toughest limit is time, unfortunatelly I still clueless how to leverage wealth to acquire time resources (so far I am very bad at hiring, no matter if it is helping to clean the house or to write code).

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#122

Post by brlewis »

mfoy_ wrote: post #98
brlewis wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use their model of reality all the time when arranging things in my house. Like Newton's formulae it works well in certain contexts, even though Einstein proved Newton wrong.

This is a bad analogy that makes it sound like you're defending flat-earthers. It's like saying you use Hermeticism's Principle of Rhythm to build a pendulum-powered clock... And unlike both Flat-Earth theory and Hermetics, Newton was actually demonstrably right . Flat-earthers and Hermeticists spin their theories out of whole cloth.

To be clear, the flat earth theory is wrong, I don't subscribe to it, and yes I'm defending flat-earthers. I reserve the right to defend people I disagree with, and to point out ways that wrong ideas can occasionally translate into useful interactions with reality.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#123

Post by zarro »

Define "Realistically". Also define "desirability". You could make equally strong arguments both ways.

Example: If you are depressed you are more likely to focus on input data that is 'negative' and overlook the 'positive' data. For instance if your depressed, instead of focusing on the different ways people are trying to improve the conditions of existence, you could focus on "the shitty conditions in india/africa/china/etc.) You could say this is more "realistic".

Example: If you are optimistic on the other hand, you could say to yourself, I have no control over those variables that make the world 'shitty', let me try and focus on the variables that make the world 'positive' and see if I can affect them, so that the world as a whole can be more "positive". Some could say this is "unrealistic".

Which is more "desirable" I would argue the latter, but I hope the argument has shown that these are value judgements subjective to the individual.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#124

Post by throwaway89228 »

riskneutral wrote: post #80

I used to feel this way, then I discovered meditation and now I am almost always in a positive state of mind. In my experience, it is depressed people who are not seeing realistically, and they are caught in cycles of mental delusion. Happiness achieved in this way is just about truly accepting the "depressing" realities and being okay with it all including your own depressing reactions to the realities, and then not…

[disclaimer: I've been practicing Shikantaza meditation for 18 years]

Please do not paint meditation as one simple solution for depression. Things are more complex.

There are many different types of meditation with different effects on different people.

Some people need therapy and should not postpone it for meditation.

> just about truly accepting the "depressing" realities

I know what you mean but this does not describe clinical depression.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#126

Post by whatshisface »

mamon wrote: post #100
hprotagonist wrote: post #78

see terry pratchett’s definition for “knurd”: https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Knurd Consider the following scale: Being drunk is to be intoxicated by alcohol to such an extent as to be unable to perceive the world clearly through the senses. Being sober is to be able to perceive the world clearly through the senses, yet humans are quite capable of giving themselves illusions and little stories to make life more bea…

I'm pretty sure that what Pratchett calls "knurd" here, Buddists call "enlightenment".

Cynicism is knowing that Santa isn't real and enlightenment is having the emotional maturity to deal with it.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#127

Post by brazzy »

izzydata wrote: post #91
riskneutral wrote: post #80

I used to feel this way, then I discovered meditation and now I am almost always in a positive state of mind. In my experience, it is depressed people who are not seeing realistically, and they are caught in cycles of mental delusion. Happiness achieved in this way is just about truly accepting the "depressing" realities and being okay with it all including your own depressing reactions to the realities, and then not…

Is it fair to acknowledge all of the worlds atrocities and then dismiss them so you can be happy?

The point is that dwelling on them will make you miserable AND does not make anyone else better of either.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#128

Post by perseusprime11 »

Adding some context that came from living with a person who suffered from depression. I am not sure if they see the world more realistically or more negatively. They are generally stuck in a cycle and need to get out of the cycle of feelings influencing actions and reverse this cycle by CBT. The negative cycle creates delusion which is exactly the opposite of reality. They view the world in a very cynical way and won't let go of past.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#129

Post by esotericn »

rtkaratekid wrote: post #102

I'm not so depressed these days (thankfully) but this "realism" does tend to manifest is different ways. I'm very self-conscious about not dragging people down because some thoughts that I think daily that are normal for me, seem to be absolutely psychologically crippling for people who previously hadn't, or didn't want to think such things. Usually when I do express these thoughts they're in the form of semi-dark hu…

I've found a lot of correlation between this sort of sense of humour and the type of place I enjoy working at.

Me and straight laced folk just don't get on. It doesn't work. There's an impedance mismatch whereby there are all of these invisible lines that I cross without even realising.

Like yeah, dude, your job is bullshit. So is mine. Life is, and then you die. If you're not fucking around and having (harmless) fun, what are you doing?

Those sorts of people need to exist - society would fall apart if everyone were so freewheeling - but I definitely seem to self select out of those groups.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#130

Post by pknopf »

Kye wrote: post #107
pknopf wrote: post #95

People may think I'm depressed, but I'm the polar opposite. I'm always discussing what it means to be depressed, only in an effort to find what is the will to live. I find it interesting. "When driving on the interstate, each driver has the power, with the flick of a wrist, to end it all. But they don't. Why not? What prevents people from flicking? What's worth living for?" My wife wants me to stop talking like that,…

There's a comic somewhere depicting the two views of nihilism. One frame is all dreary and dark with the caption "Nothing really matters" over a sad character. The other is happy and upbeat with flowers and rainbows over the same, much happier character with the same caption. It sounds like you lean more toward the latter and choose to make your own meaning rather than embrace one of the common sources of meaning. Th…

I'd love it if you could find that comic!
Post reply on HN