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Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

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Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#131

Post by djsumdog »

dewey wrote: post #91
gorgoiler wrote: post #76

Ugh, app stores! No one needs them for discovering new software. You go to the app store to get a specific piece of software you already know about and whose reputation you’ve already verified. No one needs them for code signing. If you want the real firefox.apk you can download it from https://firefox.com/ and notice a lack of SSL alarms going off. What’s the code signing for — to let me know that HTTPS works?! All…

> No one needs them for discovering new software. There's also people that don't know that they need "Firefox", they just want a browser. Or a tool to print envelopes or crop an image. So they search in the app store and they know it'll probably be okay. If you search for this online you'd get a bunch of SEO spam sites, shady tools among other things. At least due to the developer fee and reviews there's at least som…

I don't understand why we keep falling back to uneducated users in this discussions. "Oh we're tech heads; we're not the standard audience..." ... maybe the standard audience should bother to learn something.

I live in a city now and no longer have my own tools/garage, but I know enough about my car to know the shop down the street was trying to screw me when they did a bait in switch, wanting to charge $950 for an alternator repair (and claimed my battery; less than a year old was bad). I called around, towed it to another shop and paid less than half of that...and the battery was perfectly fine.

I should have checked the reviews on the first shop because they were some pretty bad ones. Now I know better, but there are a ton of people who just accept it, maybe because they're car was already towed there and they simply don't know any better.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#132

Post by krageon »

Santosh83 wrote: post #86

A general comment: the need of the hour is to educate the billions of 'ordinary' computer users about the basics of software, privacy, security and trust. We must not fall into the narrative being parroted around off-late that considers end-users as pretty much dumb content consumers who should not be expected to ever know even the minimum about the underlying tech and therefore every decision needs to be made for th…

> who should not be expected to ever know even the minimum about the underlying tech

I have worked in this industry for long enough to know that even assuming a minimum of knowledge at all is a bad idea. You can fight this fight as you want, but this comment has nothing in it to convince be otherwise.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#133

Post by jtbayly »

lm28469 wrote: post #119
dictum wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can act more effectively in the domains in which we are most authoritative, knowledgeable and able to effect change.

Yes, we, as tech workers. Most people aren't "us". It's perfectly understandable for places like the android/apple app stores to be heavily moderated. Same reasoning for forcing people to have their cars serviced by mechanics and not do their own maintenance in their backyards. Otherwise we'd have people driving cars without pipes and DIY break pads. I'd much rather have that enforced by megacorps/govt than by an inf…

Yikes. Really? Where do you live? I can’t imagine living someplace where I’m forbidden from picking up a wrench. Heaven forbid I buy some PVC pipe. Who knows what mischief I might get up to!

For the record, I do my own break pads. And have done the master cylinder (thing that powers the breaks) on my cars a couple of times. Not just without formal training. Without any training except what I could quickly Google.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#134

Post by tyfon »

izacus wrote: post #5

For anyone else publishing mobile apps: Neither Apple nor Google allow bypassing the store's purchase system by linking to external donation pages. No matter the app type, it will result in rejection.

I wonder what would happen if you link your your home page and you have a donation link there.

How deep does it have to be before they cut you off? Can you link to a page that is only linking to another page where the donation happens? How much extra text would you need to "pass inspection". I find these kinds of arbitrary rules very unsettling. It's definitely time to break up the tech giants.

It is odd that they remove this though, I use at least two more open source apps that asks for a donation and will send me to their donation page if I click.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#135

Post by swiley »

gorgoiler wrote: post #76

Ugh, app stores! No one needs them for discovering new software. You go to the app store to get a specific piece of software you already know about and whose reputation you’ve already verified. No one needs them for code signing. If you want the real firefox.apk you can download it from https://firefox.com/ and notice a lack of SSL alarms going off. What’s the code signing for — to let me know that HTTPS works?! All…

SSL during download really isn’t a substitute for code signing.

But we have fdroid and the GNU/Linux ecosystem is going to eat android’s lunch anyway.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#136

Post by least »

djsumdog wrote: post #131
dewey wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one needs them for discovering new software. There's also people that don't know that they need "Firefox", they just want a browser. Or a tool to print envelopes or crop an image. So they search in the app store and they know it'll probably be okay. If you search for this online you'd get a bunch of SEO spam sites, shady tools among other things. At least due to the developer fee and reviews there's at least som…

I don't understand why we keep falling back to uneducated users in this discussions. "Oh we're tech heads; we're not the standard audience..." ... maybe the standard audience should bother to learn something. I live in a city now and no longer have my own tools/garage, but I know enough about my car to know the shop down the street was trying to screw me when they did a bait in switch, wanting to charge $950 for an a…

> I don't understand why we keep falling back to uneducated users in this discussions.

Because that is the majority of the users and because it's hard to find reliable information on the internet even if you're willing to do the research into this sort of thing. I'm certain there are plenty of things that you are probably not knowledgable about and don't put the time to learn about as well.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#138

Post by djsumdog »

The Apple/Play stores are essentially a totally broken implementation of something that had existed for over a decade before: package repositories. It's embraced and extended Linux/BSD package/ports trees, except without things like the ability to add a 3rd party repository with other authors signing keys, pin certain versions, etc.

https://battlepenguin.com/tech/android-fragmentation/#packag...

We could go on about how regular users wouldn't understand or care and blah blah blah and we'll keep getting software that's neutered, tracks us and becomes more like the proverbial car with the hood welded shut; where people who know about cars have to attach several sidecars just to keep our vehicle doing what we want it to do.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#139

Post by blauditore »

zimbatm wrote: post #127

The problem of donation links from Google's perspective is that they are not getting their 30% cut. You might think that this is unfair, but the app is using their distribution platform. It's possible to make open source applications and still ask for payment on Google Play, either as the asking price, subscription or by adding in-app payments for donations. This is the right way to do it, and will probably also have…

Donations through the Play store's payment platform are prohibited, since all purchases need to give an additional value in return. The only reliable way to get donations in a compliant way is by linking to a website from the app and have a donation button there.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#140

Post by black_puppydog »

zimbatm wrote: post #127

The problem of donation links from Google's perspective is that they are not getting their 30% cut. You might think that this is unfair, but the app is using their distribution platform. It's possible to make open source applications and still ask for payment on Google Play, either as the asking price, subscription or by adding in-app payments for donations. This is the right way to do it, and will probably also have…

I can even go along your last point. But it's a different argument to say "going through google is more efficient" or to say "you can't not go through google". Frankly, they're using their market dominant position to force free developers into a distribution model that serves them as the payment processor. I'd not go so far as to argue those are separate businesses, but it's really a blatant abuse of their power.

Arguing that this is somehow related to software quality, safety or whatever is pure BS> There is simply no other explanation for this than "it will make us money and we can get away with it."

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