Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

lists.zx2c4.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 579 posts

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#111

Post by segfaultbuserr »

toxik wrote: post #106
etskinner wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but their point is: Why would you need code signing if https is working correctly when downloading software?

Because somebody might’ve changed the files on the distribution servers. We’ve been signing executables for decades?

As a matter of fact, APKs are signed anyway using the pubkey of their developers, the signature is embedded in the package, regardless of whether it's in the app store of not. You cannot use a package with a different signature to replace the existing one, the system will warn you about a conflict.

If someone has changed the files on the distribution servers. A Hacker News reader will have no problem recognizing it and stop installing, another one will compare the signature and keep it as evidence.

Of course, the overwhelmingly majority cannot recognize it though.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#112

Post by [deleted] »

gorgoiler wrote: post #76

Ugh, app stores! No one needs them for discovering new software. You go to the app store to get a specific piece of software you already know about and whose reputation you’ve already verified. No one needs them for code signing. If you want the real firefox.apk you can download it from https://firefox.com/ and notice a lack of SSL alarms going off. What’s the code signing for — to let me know that HTTPS works?! All…

[deleted]

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#113

Post by londons_explore »

gorgoiler wrote: post #76

Ugh, app stores! No one needs them for discovering new software. You go to the app store to get a specific piece of software you already know about and whose reputation you’ve already verified. No one needs them for code signing. If you want the real firefox.apk you can download it from https://firefox.com/ and notice a lack of SSL alarms going off. What’s the code signing for — to let me know that HTTPS works?! All…

> All I really want is an OS facility that only executes code that has been installed explicitly by me, and always in a sandbox.

Androids app sandbox is pretty leaky. It has a massive surface area, and the chances of finding exploits to get out of it to find root are high. Also, even from within the sandbox, there are lots of evil things you can do (for example, start on boot, and go fullscreen and use all the ram so the back and home button SystemUI process gets killed and your app is unkillable.).

The 'badness' of the android app model is a big chunk of the reason Google wants to be gatekeeper - otherwise android apps could just load and unload like webpages do. That and profit.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#114

Post by pkilgore »

segfaultbuserr wrote: post #90
black_puppydog wrote: post #77

The very same thing happened to manyverse (android ssb client) the other day. Got de-listed, resubmitted without donation page, now it's back up. How google tries to claim any sort of support for open source is beyond me. What open source app doesn't need a donation link? Those approved and funded by google don't, okay. But other than that?

The strangest fact is, those donation pages only have some links, there is no in-app payment. I don't understand what Google is thinking about when they banned donations... Wait. I suddenly understand something I've seen previously... There is a workaround! You simply upload two versions of the app, the free edition and the supporter edition. The support's edition is a paid app. You can ask the users who want to supp…

And then Google gets ~30% of your donations.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#115

Post by em-bee »

esotericn wrote: post #50
irjustin wrote: post #35

I know this will be against deeply against HNews but I'm open to discussion. I don't see anything wrong with this. Charging vs Donations, I don't see what the difference is. It's people paying money for good/services/software. The primary difference is the open ended pricing model. Google, Apple put up networks and there's value in that network. Whether someone chooses to release their app for free or charge money fo…

You're stating, essentially, that anyone who wants to publish FOSS software with a donation link should be forced to go through some convoluted procedure and register as a charitable organization. (where? in the US? in their specific region? does it matter? how much time will it take for them to figure out? is this even possible in all regions? does this require ongoing effort e.g. accounting, document submission, ge…

this exactly is how the world works. if you receive money, wherever it comes from, in more and more countries it must be taxed as income. if you want it tax free, you must prove that you are eligible to do so.

the question is whether or not it is right for google to act as a gatekeeper here. i think not.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#116

Post by im3w1l »

dewey wrote: post #91
gorgoiler wrote: post #76

Ugh, app stores! No one needs them for discovering new software. You go to the app store to get a specific piece of software you already know about and whose reputation you’ve already verified. No one needs them for code signing. If you want the real firefox.apk you can download it from https://firefox.com/ and notice a lack of SSL alarms going off. What’s the code signing for — to let me know that HTTPS works?! All…

> No one needs them for discovering new software. There's also people that don't know that they need "Firefox", they just want a browser. Or a tool to print envelopes or crop an image. So they search in the app store and they know it'll probably be okay. If you search for this online you'd get a bunch of SEO spam sites, shady tools among other things. At least due to the developer fee and reviews there's at least som…

In what sense will it be ok? Isn't a lot of the stuff in appstores spyware nowadays?

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#117

Post by sjwright »

Crazyontap wrote: post #43

A lot of people justify Google and Apple's 30% because they provide an app store and distribution. But Android is Android because of these apps. Without them it would be like the Windows phone which was nice but didn't get enough apps on it and so it failed. These companies depend on our apps as much as we depend on their app store for distribution. Fuck apple for starting this walled garden and creating a parasitic…

"Android is Android because of these apps" but "Fuck Apple"?

I don't understand.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#118

Post by manojlds »

toxik wrote: post #108
segfaultbuserr wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oops, it's not a good idea! I now see the motivation behind it!

This is the reason Apple started doing this way back. Sad to see Google follow suit. I guess the bottom line is the bottom line...

I thought this was a Apple only thing and Google doesn't do this. For example, you cannot buy Audible books frim iOS apuo but can from the Android app.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#119

Post by lm28469 »

dictum wrote: post #110
lm28469 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that considers end-users as pretty much dumb content consumers who should not be expected to ever know even the minimum about the underlying tech and therefore every decision needs to be made for them by a small minority of corporations, govts, and the tech elite acting as gatekeepers and overseers. That's what we do in every other domains, what's the difference here ?

We can act more effectively in the domains in which we are most authoritative, knowledgeable and able to effect change.

Yes, we, as tech workers. Most people aren't "us". It's perfectly understandable for places like the android/apple app stores to be heavily moderated.

Same reasoning for forcing people to have their cars serviced by mechanics and not do their own maintenance in their backyards. Otherwise we'd have people driving cars without pipes and DIY break pads. I'd much rather have that enforced by megacorps/govt than by an infinite amount of businesses/individuals trying to game the system.

For most people a smartphone is an entertainment device, a tool at best, they don't give a single fuck about the underlying tech and they should not. Feel free to root your phone and install whatever you want, you can't ask people to become tech literate, it's your hobby/job, not their. Our job is to provide them safe tools, not teach them about tech. Look at your own life, chances are you don't even have surface knowledge of 99% of the things you use daily, and that's perfectly fine, nobody expects you to be a furniture designer, building safety inspector and car mechanic.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#120

Post by ekianjo »

segfaultbuserr wrote: post #90
black_puppydog wrote: post #77

The very same thing happened to manyverse (android ssb client) the other day. Got de-listed, resubmitted without donation page, now it's back up. How google tries to claim any sort of support for open source is beyond me. What open source app doesn't need a donation link? Those approved and funded by google don't, okay. But other than that?

The strangest fact is, those donation pages only have some links, there is no in-app payment. I don't understand what Google is thinking about when they banned donations... Wait. I suddenly understand something I've seen previously... There is a workaround! You simply upload two versions of the app, the free edition and the supporter edition. The support's edition is a paid app. You can ask the users who want to supp…

A paid app means Google gets to claim some revenues out of it.
Post reply on HN