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A History of Pizza

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21–30 of 103 posts

Re: A History of Pizza

#21

The abomination created by putting pineapple on pizza is either Canadian or German: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_pizza Dig a bit more and it seems the German claim is a bit stronger. The postwar years were difficult in Europe.

I'm pretty sure tuna and corn on pizza is a German thing too.

Re: A History of Pizza

#22
Quick note: caciocavello is not horse milk cheese. It's a pasta filata cheese (stretched curd cheese) that is aged. It's formed into jug shaped cheeses with a string tied to the top to age it. Normally there are 2 cheeses tied to either end of the string and you hang them. It's called "cavello" (horse) because you could put it on horse back with one cheese on either side of the horse.

It's essentially a drier version of mozzarella, though (very similar to Italian provalone).

Edit: non-sensical sentence

Re: A History of Pizza

#23
In Lee Iacocca's memoirs, he recalls how kids in school bullied him and taunted him for eating pizza, calling it "Dago food". Now it's America's #1 food, but the change was within living memory.

Re: A History of Pizza

#25

The abomination created by putting pineapple on pizza is either Canadian or German: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_pizza Dig a bit more and it seems the German claim is a bit stronger. The postwar years were difficult in Europe.

I'm sorely disappointed about the English language Wikipedia article on Toast Hawaii. Yes, it was a post-war German invention, but it was also so much more than that. Just the fact that the German-language article [0] has a three-paragraph section "Reception" should tell you that.

It's a symbol of post-war economic growth that a household could afford both ham and cheese and exotic fruit for a single meal. It didn't matter that it taste that nice. Neither do many other meals that only serve to demonstrate the wealth of the host.

[0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toast_Hawaii

Re: A History of Pizza

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pizza on that page looks extremely greasy and - most importantly - burned! Hope it's not representative of New Haven pizza in general.

I have eaten those style of pizza. They are tasty. Not everything must be Neapolitan to be edible. I think it may depends on local ingredients - since Italy has amazing ones it is just a matter of putting simple toppings with minimal heat processing not to fuck them up and serve. If there were no good local substitutes you have to pump up the grease and toast the ingredients a bit more to make it flavorful enough.

Oh I know it can be tasty, I have eaten my fair share of greasy pizzas too. And I’m not saying neapolitan is the only possible pizza style, although in my opinion it’s the best one. Neapolitan is actually charred on the crust too, but it’s not that extreme - the crust from the pizza above is basically coal... Don’t get me wrong, I would eat it anyway (maybe skipping the crust), but it definitely doesn’t look like a “best in the world” pizza.

As for the ingredients, I’m not sure why Italy would have inherently better local ingredients. I can understand why northern Europe has shitty tomatoes (too cold to grow compared to, for example, southern Italy), but with its size, population and diversity of climates I imagine you can grow pretty much anything in the US at a decent quality, without the need to grease stuff to give it flavor.

Re: A History of Pizza

#28
post #13
post #8

Boo, no mention of New Haven's early contribution. Not that I'm biased (I am, they have the best pizza in the world, objectively speaking, of course) http://www.ctvisit.com/articles/new-haven-apizza-history

Maybe the best pizza in the United States . I'm Italian, the classic United States pizza could hardly be called "pizza" here, since it's not risen enough for being a pizza.

I went to a well-famed pizzeria with a few friends. Among them was a woman from Napoli who was in France for a few months. When we asked what she thought of her pizza she said:

> It's good. Nothing great, but once I stopped thinking of it as a pizza, I found it was good food.

Re: A History of Pizza

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have eaten those style of pizza. They are tasty. Not everything must be Neapolitan to be edible. I think it may depends on local ingredients - since Italy has amazing ones it is just a matter of putting simple toppings with minimal heat processing not to fuck them up and serve. If there were no good local substitutes you have to pump up the grease and toast the ingredients a bit more to make it flavorful enough.

Oh I know it can be tasty, I have eaten my fair share of greasy pizzas too. And I’m not saying neapolitan is the only possible pizza style, although in my opinion it’s the best one. Neapolitan is actually charred on the crust too, but it’s not that extreme - the crust from the pizza above is basically coal... Don’t get me wrong, I would eat it anyway (maybe skipping the crust), but it definitely doesn’t look like a “…

> I imagine you can grow pretty much anything in the US at a decent quality

I believe this is true, subject to the original source material (seeds?) being imported.

> but with its size, population and diversity of climates

This makes it tricky, as producing enough of the high quality ingredients in appropriate locations, that can survive the transportation distances, creates a whole new range of problems.

Solving this at Italy scale is a different matter to solving this at USA scale.

Re: A History of Pizza

#30

"Some even had tomatoes on top. Only recently introduced from the Americas, these were still a curiosity, looked down upon by contemporary gourmets". Well that settles it. Next time a pizza traditionalist blasts me for having pineapple on my pizza, I'll counter that he shouldn't have tomatoes on theirs.

And the use of tomato paste or sauce underneath, rather than sliced tomato on top, seems to be an even later innovation.

This was done not for the taste, but so that the pizza could be prepared in advance of being served. The idea was that the tomato paste would not go bad or seep juices into the dough base. Its is actually a regression from a culinary standpoint.
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