Perhaps if so many of us are depressed then that is the natural reaction to the environment we have been placed in, which is why it takes some level of delusion to be happy.
Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)
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Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)
#52My therapist said to me once: "I really like pessimistic patients a lot more than overly optimistic ones. A depressed, pessimistic person is judging the world very accurately and is not crushed by a negative outcome, as they have already thought about exactly that. They might even completely circumvent the negative outcome, because they thought about every possibility beforehand. Optimists on the other hand can be cr…
> They might even completely circumvent the negative outcome, because they thought about every possibility beforehand.
This can get out of hand when circumvention becomes a lifestyle.
Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)
#53Yes. The problem is, when you're not always depressed.
You feel good, get too optimistic, things don't work out because you underestimated everything aaand you're back to being depressed.
Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
One aspect is failing to break out huge problems into manageable pieces. This is the main problem I have had with depression. Beeing overwhelmed by the smallest problem because the consecquences of all actions that has to be taken to solve it.
> One aspect is failing to break out huge problems into manageable pieces. Isn't this rather a sign that the world is simply too complex and should be simplified?
BTDT and I'd say no, it's a psychological effect of being overwhelmed mentally, even if you could handle it in better circumstances. Even the most trivial problems become crushing. Even imagined problems.
Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)
#55Could it be that people who see the world Realistically, get depressed?
> Could it be that people who see the world Realistically, get depressed? This fits my experience quite well. To give a software development analogy: The more you learn about deep, esoteric details of various parts of computers (i.e. you get to see computers more realistically than idealized), the more depressed you get about the current state of software development. And yes, late at night, I often work privately on…
Could you give an example? What's depressing about the current world of software?
Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)
#56That's right, because when you are depressed,you will be aware to make new friends, you will judge them by reality, and any situation you will face, you will judge it by reality. Emotion doesn't work that much for depressed people.
Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)
#57That seems reasonable to me. I've often found optimism in others to be foolish. And for bipolar me, extreme optimism is a sign of hypomania. But there's a lot more to depression than seeing the world realistically. There's a tendency to feel inadequate, hopeless and disempowered. And there's more to that than seeing oneself and ones capabilities realistically. One aspect is failing to break out huge problems into man…
From my own experience I'd agree with this - I can feel down, certainly, but I'm nowhere near the non-functioning, clinically depressed state I was in for 4 years a few years back.
I don't think the "realistic" vision I had of "the world" has really changed, just the attitude: I'm still "stupid as f*ck" and observing "person X I knew in high school totally has such a better life than I do" - but now, it's about interpreting it as a reason that things should probably change, whether it's the perspective ("So what?") or the action ("Are you not even going to try doing something about it?").
OTOH, it really doesn't help that there are so many more things to be depressed about pretty much all the time - abuses of social media, pornography, addiction, fracturing social structures. I ask, incredulously, how can anyone read this [1] and NOT want to die, or at least profoundly sympathize? People haven't evolved "rosy enough glasses" to mask these symptoms of modernity - of course there are problems, both with "the world" and our abilities to get by.
"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us?"
Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)
#58That seems reasonable to me. I've often found optimism in others to be foolish. And for bipolar me, extreme optimism is a sign of hypomania. But there's a lot more to depression than seeing the world realistically. There's a tendency to feel inadequate, hopeless and disempowered. And there's more to that than seeing oneself and ones capabilities realistically. One aspect is failing to break out huge problems into man…
I'm reminded of the 'ultimate perspective vortex' from the Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy, a terrifying execution device that showed people exactly how significant they were in the grande scheme of things for an instant. Sounds a bit similar to what you're describing.
Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)
#59Real_ism_ can mean passivity, and a lack of creation. If seeing things as they are means paralysis, how does it help us? Not being realistic can help make things happen. I think it can be valuable to see things realistically, and then rejecting what you see.
Not being realistic can also mean that you are creative on false premises, and that the result might fail because of it. By being realistic about the world and the environment surrounding you be it work-, political-, economical- or otherwise you can see actual problems plaguing others, and _maybe_ you can generate something that solves a tiny part of what people struggle with.
Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)
#60To my mind, depression is basically a feeling of being powerless. When lab researchers want to see if a mouse is depressed, they pick it up by the tail. The normal mice struggle, however uselessly, the depressed ones just hang there.
In my experience though, The worst is being powerless and not knowing why. If you can gain understanding of the world, even though your situation might not change right away, it still helps.