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Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

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Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#31

Post by benj111 »

fsloth wrote: post #10
reportgunner wrote: post #3

> In fact, "some psychologists concede that an element of self-deception may be necessary for well-being," Feltham says. I think about this every day, I thought it was an established fact for some reason. Perhaps I thought it was established since I know the saying " ignorance is bliss "

I'm not sure if self-deception is the correct word. People cannot fit much in their heads. There is too much good and too much evil in the world for a single person to truly percieve. I don't think it's self deception if one tries to focus on good things. It becomes self deception if a person thinks the world is completely good because all they see are good things, though.

Self deception seems reasonable.

Most drivers rate themselves as above average, when in reality only about half are.

I'm sure most people view themselves as nice, reasonable people. The presence of idiots should indicate they aren't all correct.

I know that I'm an attractive guy, who makes extremely well reasoned arguments on the internet, unfortunately it's everyone else that isn't enlightened enough to appreciate my true genius.

I suppose you could file it under cognitive dissonance, self deception seems reasonable too.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#32

Post by wolfgke »

buboard wrote: post #8

Could it be that people who see the world Realistically, get depressed?

> Could it be that people who see the world Realistically, get depressed?

This fits my experience quite well.

To give a software development analogy:

The more you learn about deep, esoteric details of various parts of computers (i.e. you get to see computers more realistically than idealized), the more depressed you get about the current state of software development. And yes, late at night, I often work privately on how to improve this situation - but I talk to a brick wall.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#33

Post by cco »

wildduck wrote: post #30
mirimir wrote: post #18

That seems reasonable to me. I've often found optimism in others to be foolish. And for bipolar me, extreme optimism is a sign of hypomania. But there's a lot more to depression than seeing the world realistically. There's a tendency to feel inadequate, hopeless and disempowered. And there's more to that than seeing oneself and ones capabilities realistically. One aspect is failing to break out huge problems into man…

While this is valid view. It is a view. Language can be used to describe reality or to create it. >That seems reasonable to me. I've often found optimism in others to be foolish. "Stay hungry, stay foolish",- Steve Job's commencement speech at Stanford. Sometime foolishness is what make a difference. It is really all about timing and context.

I think you're missing the point, it is foolish, it doesn't map to reality, but that doesn't make it maladaptive. The point here is that the maladaptive group, depressed people, see the world closer to its real state, clearly it is advantageous for humans to see the world through rose colored glasses to some degree.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#35

Post by VvR-Ox »

Why am I not surprised?

The world is really going down right now and just following news what's going on is reason enough to cry like a baby or lose it completely.

That's one of the main reasons why many people take drugs - it helps to forget what's happening around us and it makes us numb enough to stop feeling the constant pain when we think about the things happening to our brothers and sisters who aren't lucky enough to be born in the right place, to have the right parents or live in the "right" place etc.

Too much information on how the people are screwed every minute may be reason enough to be depressed if you don't shut those thoughts out in the long run.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#36

Post by mikorym »

mirimir wrote: post #18

That seems reasonable to me. I've often found optimism in others to be foolish. And for bipolar me, extreme optimism is a sign of hypomania. But there's a lot more to depression than seeing the world realistically. There's a tendency to feel inadequate, hopeless and disempowered. And there's more to that than seeing oneself and ones capabilities realistically. One aspect is failing to break out huge problems into man…

I think optimism is a kind of personal thing—you can't always tell its level by observing someone. I think optimistic cynicism is a thing.

PS in psychology they have a concept called appropriate affect. Its kind of the opposite of cognitive dissonance.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#37

Post by Aloha »

akuji1993 wrote: post #2

My therapist said to me once: "I really like pessimistic patients a lot more than overly optimistic ones. A depressed, pessimistic person is judging the world very accurately and is not crushed by a negative outcome, as they have already thought about exactly that. They might even completely circumvent the negative outcome, because they thought about every possibility beforehand. Optimists on the other hand can be cr…

I find people who look at the world thru "shit colored goggles" tend to be self defeating and will often convince themselves it won't work before starting.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#38

Post by michaelt »

Funes- wrote: post #23
reportgunner wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not black and white. Often we are optimist and we ignore the suffering of the ones closest to us because we simply don't believe they are suffering.

That doesn't have anything to do with being optimistic, as far as I can tell. Dismissing others' suffering is caused by a lack of empathy or by selfishness--the two go hand in hand. It can certainly seem to a depressed person that an optimistic one is oblivious to their suffering, but it is not always the case. I think the best you can do with negative people is make it absolutely clear that you acknowledge their pai…

If another person's internal mental state isn't visible, so we have to work it out from things that are visible, there might be a wide range of possible guesses and so being optimistic or pessimistic might produce very different results.

Has my friend Joe stopped coming out with us because he's busy with a great new girlfriend he just hasn't told us about yet - or because depression means he can barely get out of bed in the morning let alone leave the house?

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#39

Post by fellow_human »

Funes- wrote: post #21
akuji1993 wrote: post #2

My therapist said to me once: "I really like pessimistic patients a lot more than overly optimistic ones. A depressed, pessimistic person is judging the world very accurately and is not crushed by a negative outcome, as they have already thought about exactly that. They might even completely circumvent the negative outcome, because they thought about every possibility beforehand. Optimists on the other hand can be cr…

>A depressed, pessimistic person is judging the world very accurately. Absolutely not. I've dealt with a lot of pessimistic, depressed people--I've been clinically depressed, as well, in the past--, and we can be the most closed-minded, whiny, oblivious people out there. I think that's exactly how depression actually works: one is enslaved, kept away from experiencing the world as it is, by their extraordinarily redu…

This is absolutely true in my experience. Going to my therapist I realized that I spent all my time focusing on negative outcomes for a given life problem of mine. So much so that the failure to imagine a more optimistic outcome left me paralyzed to act. This paralysis left me feeling hopeless and depressed. As I talked things over I realized that:

1) We have a perverse tendency to reinforce our existing views in new experiences. For example, if one believes he/she is not a very charming and likable persom, every opportunity to make a new friend may thrown away because the person doesn't have confidence to present themselves in an interesting way or the person may misinterpret another's neutral body language as a negative signal during a conversation.

2) Experience is the best teacher. Experience etches things into our subconscious. If negativity is etched in our brains then it takes a strong conscious effort to over turn it. This can potentially scary because the effort to experience a positive outcome may result is us being beat down further. But we have to see it for what it is, one experience, the next may end differently. Overcoming depression requires concious effort, hope and resiliencey. This is not something that happens overnight.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#40

Post by bigred100 »

wildduck wrote: post #30
mirimir wrote: post #18

That seems reasonable to me. I've often found optimism in others to be foolish. And for bipolar me, extreme optimism is a sign of hypomania. But there's a lot more to depression than seeing the world realistically. There's a tendency to feel inadequate, hopeless and disempowered. And there's more to that than seeing oneself and ones capabilities realistically. One aspect is failing to break out huge problems into man…

While this is valid view. It is a view. Language can be used to describe reality or to create it. >That seems reasonable to me. I've often found optimism in others to be foolish. "Stay hungry, stay foolish",- Steve Job's commencement speech at Stanford. Sometime foolishness is what make a difference. It is really all about timing and context.

My basic understanding is that Steve Jobs was a manipulative, mentally ill child abuser who gets a pass because he made the iPod. Everyone has their own perspective, but I’d rather not be those things than do them and make a difference by manufacturing popular consumer goods. But this is of course not an argument for depression.
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