I think this doesn't go far enough, there should be a ban on starting before 10 am. During high school I recall frequently falling asleep around 3-4 am and having the alarm go off at 6:30.
California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
291–300 of 404 posts
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#292I am going to ask this again, as I never receive a satisfactory answer when this subject comes up. Isn't time all relative? Its just a number, which we adjust by an hour twice a year. It takes us a couple of days to get used to it. Can't people just be more disciplined and go to bed an hour earlier if they need an hours extra sleep? That's effectively what we do in spring when the clocks change. I came to this conclu…
No, not all time is relative and the presence of light has profound impacts on our biological circadian rhythm. Even DST has shown negative health impacts. [1] 1. https://www.businessinsider.com/daylight-saving-time-is-dead...
Ok, that's a fair point, but don't certain countries effectively rise a lot earlier than others? (Greenwich meantime for example passes through London and also through Spain, yet there is an hour difference in the time zone). Is there evidence that that affects these countries differently? Plus we have light bulbs in this day and age, so lighting is not affected by the sun in the same way that it used to be.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Teachers can't bear to carry that load themselves. Why can't they bear the load? - Because they are underfunded and understaffed - Because society doesn't think it's the school's responsibility to teach If society decided that reading and writing should be taught in school, then it would be taught in school and the system would be designed such that teachers would easily handle it. Your "parents have a load to carr…
I don't know if we read "carry their load" the same. I think of it that parents need to teach their kids how to behave, not math. Kids who come to class and don't listen, talk when the teacher is talking and disturb the other kids is going to be a problem. Children who act out violently or with screaming when confronted create big problems. Children who are not adjusted to being respectful towards other children and…
There’s a lot more to it than that. Even when they’re young, there’s a lot more hours in the day than the hours they spend at school (and below school age there’s an even bigger difference). Engaged parents will help their children a lot more in those hours (or ensure they have childcare providers who do if they are working). Reading to children at home. Having books they can read themselves and encouraging them to do it. Getting them to do simple maths puzzles in everyday settings (how much change? How long until bedtime? That sort of thing). Later on, making sure they do their homework and helping them out with parts they didn’t understand from school. Talking to them about the wider world. Etc.
Those engaged parents will also be the first to complain if the teachers spend too much time with the children who don’t get that at home. So without engaged parents and a supportive home environment, children are at a significant disadvantage.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you have all 3 classes of students going to school at the same time, your bus costs are going to be 3 times as high. It doesn't matter if it's public or private, that's just how it works. In Australia, it is also normal that all 3 classes of students also start at around the same time. (8:45-9:00am). This doesn't seem to be a problem that the public transit system seems incapable of handling.
Australia has less people in it than California.
I don't see how that is relevant. Yes, given that the US has a bigger population (roughly 13 times bigger), it must spend more money in total on bus trips to/from school than Australia does; but, it also has a much larger economy (roughly 14 times bigger) with which to pay for those bus trips.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#295Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#296School may start at 8am but morning begins at 5am in an industrious household. Even one solid hour of daily morning practice before school is a great gain.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its not anectdotal and i would urge you to point to the scientific studies so we can debate their methodology and “scientific” base. I’m too old to just take these kind of studies as science without looking at the details. Now you dont have to take my examples for more than they are but they sure contradict the claims being made in this thread and onna state level.
Why We Sleep [1], by Matthew Walker, PhD. Page 92: " Adolescents face two other harmful challenges in their struggle to obtain sufficient sleep as their brains continue to develop. The first is a change in their circadian rhythm. The second is early school start times. " Also: " ... the circadian rhythm of a young child runs on an earlier schedule. Children therefore become sleepy earlier and wake up earlier than the…
Nothing in that contradicts what i wrote, it supports it.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, but no one claims you have 3 months of vacation when you are spending time doing those things...
No, but this is my free time and how I use it. If I chose to do that during my vacations, no one would be "well poor you, you don't really have 4 weeks of vacation a year, since you decided to pursue professional development during these weeks". People would simply say that I chose to use my free time to do these things, and some of these things are quite essential to my continued employment.
The line between that decision being made freely vs. being forced by labor market competition or other economic reasons is pretty fuzzy.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand the frustration, but I think it is absurd to expect teachers and school administrators (who are woefully underpaid, especially in the Bay area) to accommodate working parents by working extra hours just for the parent's benefit. It's a hard enough job as it is, what with the poor pay, large workload, dealing with entitled, helicopter parents and the diminishing societal appreciation for their contributio…
There’s a 20:1 to 30:1 ratio so are you suggesting it’s better for 20-30 working, single parent families? Maybe the government should pay teachers more and pay less on defense and we’d have a more productive society.
Maybe people could vote for politicians that prioritize education over defense?
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
My single anecdote isnt single at all. We are talking about several schools using same method with kids in the top 3% on average. Show me the research and we can debate it, until then the primary problem in the us is that parent put their kids to bed too late.
Here is NPR's article on it: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/12/12/6761187... Here is the journal article referenced: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/12/eaau6200 Here is the CDC's summary referencing further studies: https://www.cdc.gov/features/school-start-times/index.html
Thanks, I read it:
1) The study doesn't conclude what the parent was claiming and what you seem to think it's claiming. 2) It's only for high school students and its sample is pretty small. 3) It actually supports my point of enough sleep more than anything else which seems to be completely ignored of course. 4) Here is my evidence https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/more-on-the-phenomenal-eye-po... my sons are Success Academy.
What do you suggest I conclude from that?
5) Just saying something is science isn't enough and just saying it's science because someone did some studies isn't enough either. I read through the paper and it wasn't even close to being anything but a very small sample especially when you factor in that two different schools yielded two different results. So perhaps rather than just scream science, it would help if people took a deep breath and looked into what they hold in front of them as science cause that wasn't it.
6) I was responding to a claim about not being fully awake in the morning with a simple observation that if you go to bed early you are not going to be tired in the morning. That was then challenged with a completely new challenge which was that kids perform better when they are in school later to which I know for a fact that's not true and from the article you are referencing that's not what's being said either.