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Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

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Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#21

Post by Funes- »

akuji1993 wrote: post #2

My therapist said to me once: "I really like pessimistic patients a lot more than overly optimistic ones. A depressed, pessimistic person is judging the world very accurately and is not crushed by a negative outcome, as they have already thought about exactly that. They might even completely circumvent the negative outcome, because they thought about every possibility beforehand. Optimists on the other hand can be cr…

>A depressed, pessimistic person is judging the world very accurately.

Absolutely not. I've dealt with a lot of pessimistic, depressed people--I've been clinically depressed, as well, in the past--, and we can be the most closed-minded, whiny, oblivious people out there. I think that's exactly how depression actually works: one is enslaved, kept away from experiencing the world as it is, by their extraordinarily reduced perspective, which is seemingly unescapable to the depressed individual.

I don't think it's reasonable to conflate negativity--which leads to bad outcomes--with a realistic mindset--which takes into account potential bad outcomes. I find the opposite to be true, in my experience: the more positive and proactive a person is, the stronger they can become--and not crushed by a negative turn of events.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#22

Post by bjornsing »

SpeakMouthWords wrote: post #13
buboard wrote: post #8

Could it be that people who see the world Realistically, get depressed?

You would be hard pressed to elucidate a biological causation there.

Isn’t it the other way around? The OP is making a causal claim (“depression causes realistic world view”). The parent is merely pointing out the room for selection bias. Burden of proof should be on the OP IMHO.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#23

Post by Funes- »

reportgunner wrote: post #20
Dowwie wrote: post #16

Take a moment and consider this quote by the late Amos Tversky about his view on pessimism: "When you are a pessimist and the bad thing happens, you live it twice,' Amos liked to say. 'Once when you worry about it, and the second time when it happens." This is a rational explanation for why anyone ought not succumb to pessimism.

This is not black and white. Often we are optimist and we ignore the suffering of the ones closest to us because we simply don't believe they are suffering.

That doesn't have anything to do with being optimistic, as far as I can tell. Dismissing others' suffering is caused by a lack of empathy or by selfishness--the two go hand in hand. It can certainly seem to a depressed person that an optimistic one is oblivious to their suffering, but it is not always the case. I think the best you can do with negative people is make it absolutely clear that you acknowledge their pain while getting them to progressively come out of it.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#24

Post by xiphias2 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #14

I see this as sort of the main riddle (or catch-22 if you're the pessimistic type) of life. The semi-unrealistic hope of optimism is what motivates us to get things done. For the HN crowd, consider startup founders. The vast majority of startups fail, yet virtually all founders go into it overestimating their chances of success. After all, if they were realistic about their chances, they'd find the whole business too…

There are lots of ways to decrease risk in a startup, and if the founder is not seeing this realistically, s/he can get caught up in the details of the startup instead of looking at the fastest way to decrease the risk of failing.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#25

Post by benj111 »

akuji1993 wrote: post #2

My therapist said to me once: "I really like pessimistic patients a lot more than overly optimistic ones. A depressed, pessimistic person is judging the world very accurately and is not crushed by a negative outcome, as they have already thought about exactly that. They might even completely circumvent the negative outcome, because they thought about every possibility beforehand. Optimists on the other hand can be cr…

As a pessimistic person that does tend to analyse everything that can go wrong. I have to say it can still turn out worse than what you think.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#26

Post by luckynumber007 »

mirimir wrote: post #18

That seems reasonable to me. I've often found optimism in others to be foolish. And for bipolar me, extreme optimism is a sign of hypomania. But there's a lot more to depression than seeing the world realistically. There's a tendency to feel inadequate, hopeless and disempowered. And there's more to that than seeing oneself and ones capabilities realistically. One aspect is failing to break out huge problems into man…

One aspect is failing to break out huge problems into manageable pieces.

This is the main problem I have had with depression. Beeing overwhelmed by the smallest problem because the consecquences of all actions that has to be taken to solve it.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#27

Post by Phenix88be »

Dowwie wrote: post #16

Take a moment and consider this quote by the late Amos Tversky about his view on pessimism: "When you are a pessimist and the bad thing happens, you live it twice,' Amos liked to say. 'Once when you worry about it, and the second time when it happens." This is a rational explanation for why anyone ought not succumb to pessimism.

> 'Once when you worry about it, and the second time when it happens."

I have solve that long ago. Something bad will happen. If I can prevent it, I will and only live it once. If I can't prevent it, why should I be worried ? I make preparation for after it happen.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#28

Post by user_rob »

tudorw wrote: post #6
akuji1993 wrote: post #2

My therapist said to me once: "I really like pessimistic patients a lot more than overly optimistic ones. A depressed, pessimistic person is judging the world very accurately and is not crushed by a negative outcome, as they have already thought about exactly that. They might even completely circumvent the negative outcome, because they thought about every possibility beforehand. Optimists on the other hand can be cr…

I suppose the next level is to learn to enjoy the negative outcome, from an observational stoic perspective, every experience has a unique quality.

Exactly; take every thing good or bad as a life challenge or experience to be fully engaged with and do not give up! Learnt the not giving up as a teen while race sailing; not giving up ever, resulted in a stack of trophies - but also a few submerged boats - in retrospect the submerged boats were more interesting. Winding years forward and experiencing many "challenges" I now have cancer that I am told cannot be cured - but its just another life challenge that I am experiencing and is quite interesting - like boats sinking, and I carry on doing what I like to do...

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#29

Post by wolfgke »

luckynumber007 wrote: post #26
mirimir wrote: post #18

That seems reasonable to me. I've often found optimism in others to be foolish. And for bipolar me, extreme optimism is a sign of hypomania. But there's a lot more to depression than seeing the world realistically. There's a tendency to feel inadequate, hopeless and disempowered. And there's more to that than seeing oneself and ones capabilities realistically. One aspect is failing to break out huge problems into man…

One aspect is failing to break out huge problems into manageable pieces. This is the main problem I have had with depression. Beeing overwhelmed by the smallest problem because the consecquences of all actions that has to be taken to solve it.

> One aspect is failing to break out huge problems into manageable pieces.

Isn't this rather a sign that the world is simply too complex and should be simplified?

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#30

Post by wildduck »

mirimir wrote: post #18

That seems reasonable to me. I've often found optimism in others to be foolish. And for bipolar me, extreme optimism is a sign of hypomania. But there's a lot more to depression than seeing the world realistically. There's a tendency to feel inadequate, hopeless and disempowered. And there's more to that than seeing oneself and ones capabilities realistically. One aspect is failing to break out huge problems into man…

While this is valid view. It is a view. Language can be used to describe reality or to create it.

>That seems reasonable to me. I've often found optimism in others to be foolish.

"Stay hungry, stay foolish",- Steve Job's commencement speech at Stanford.

Sometime foolishness is what make a difference. It is really all about timing and context.

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