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Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

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Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#371

Post by Fezzik »

knzhou wrote: post #356
echelon wrote: post #202

We need to impose an 80% repatriation tax on any profits earned in China in order to offset the damages done to our domestic freedom of speech. China should not be able to control society outside of its own walls, yet they have blatantly influenced the behavior of our biggest mass media companies for years. To be fair, they've done an outstanding job of it. They fund a huge number of film productions. They've bought…

> They fund a huge number of film productions. > All the while we never once see China portrayed as an enemy. > Games are not permitted to promote LGBT acceptance. > Films sometimes bend backwards to include China as a strong and moral ally. Sorry, are you just this making stuff up or do you live in that much of an echo chamber? None of this reflects anything about mainstream American culture -- if anything, everythi…

A quick duckduckgo search will indicate that these assertions are correct. For example, see the second hit for ‘china funding american cinema’, from 2016: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/07/01/china-cens...

And China has been involved in all sorts of questionable financing schemes with recent Hollywood films.

There may be enclaves of people who are paying attention that ridicule China as the authoritarian travesty that it is... but Western pop culture, big business, and our government kowtow to China and its whims.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#372

Post by felipelemos »

cloakandswagger wrote: post #88
thatswrong0 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that a country which is committing human rights abuses is pressuring said private company (among _many_ others) to abridge free speech. The other case is a private company not wanting to host right-wing neo-nazi content of which the general public isn’t really accepting. I don’t see the hypocrisy here at all.. tbh I don’t even quite understand how you can conflate the two situations other than the f…

Both situations feature people being banned by companies due to their speech because the companies fear backlash from more powerful entities (China or the media/general public respectively). They seem pretty comparable to me.

The difference is pretty clear.

In a democratic society, the people voices are heard.

In a dictatorship, only the small elite that controls the government's voice is heard.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#373

Post by bashwizard »

echelon wrote: post #202

We need to impose an 80% repatriation tax on any profits earned in China in order to offset the damages done to our domestic freedom of speech. China should not be able to control society outside of its own walls, yet they have blatantly influenced the behavior of our biggest mass media companies for years. To be fair, they've done an outstanding job of it. They fund a huge number of film productions. They've bought…

Someone needs to get out of the twitterverse.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#374

Post by foobiekr »

tutiospose wrote: post #327
derefr wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no real way they will win They could win everywhere but China, by explicitly choosing to withdraw their products from China.

Most countries, and even many in the West, don’t actually care. I think HN and Reddit are a echo chamber in this regard. None of my friends have stopped playing and they are now talking about the “next outrage” like Catalonia or the Extinction Protests in London.

I care. I’m not going to buy anything from blizzard going forward.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#375

Post by belltaco »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #367
mintplant wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what, as an LGBTQ+ person, I'm not allowed to be represented in media? Because my existence is "political"?

When Blizzard says "this character is gay in America but in other countries he is straight", it seems like inauthentic pandering instead of actual representation.

When did they say that?

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#376

Post by com »

SmirkingRevenge wrote: post #332
mintplant wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what, as an LGBTQ+ person, I'm not allowed to be represented in media? Because my existence is "political"?

Ehh... I think in common usage the "LGBTQ+" designation is fairly politically loaded. It really is intertwined with specific strains of political activism (mostly progressive left). And because of that, all sorts of policy views and prescriptions on ancillary matters have coalesced under the "LGBTQ+" umbrella. It may even say more about one's political identity/grouping at this point, than it does about sexual prefer…

It’s almost as if non-majority sexual identity was a political statement of left-wingers?

Seriously: that cis, straight, unkinky people actually use the term LGBTQ+, are alive to the challenges that this group of people face every.single.day and are prepared to stand up and be counted is somehow a “progressive left” hobby or “political identity” rather than genuine human empathy and expression of civic values shows how little some people can even conceptualize the inner lives of others.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#377

Post by methodover »

FooHentai wrote: post #286
hannasanarion wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For real though, changing character design for things like skeletons because it has a different meaning in another culture is a perfectly normal thing to do. Changing characters to scrub them of LGBT characteristics that are illegal in another country is cowardly and should have caused a much bigger outrage than it did. Banning players for supporting pro-democracy movements outside the game and retroactively seizing…

>The Chinese government didn't even threaten them over it. Overtly. But this is a clear example of what is meant when people talk about the 'soft influence' which China seeks to develop. At the crude end of the scale, you have indoctrinated CCP people spreading out globally occupied in various positions able to exert leverage favorable to the party. At the more subtle end you have boards mindful of impacting their bo…

The chilling effect that China is having in liberal democracies like ours is extremely disturbing.

We need our governments to do something about this. If Chinese companies want to do business here, we need our own businesses treated with the same ruleset in their country. We wouldn’t ban a Chinese corporation for a minor executive’s political speech. We have laws against it. (The first amendment protects non-citizens as well as citizens.)

China has been enjoying our markets but hasn’t been willing to extend the favor fully. We need a new trade agreement that demands equal treatment, or we should pull out of China and do business with friendlier countries instead.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#378

Post by [deleted] »

Fezzik wrote: post #371
knzhou wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They fund a huge number of film productions. > All the while we never once see China portrayed as an enemy. > Games are not permitted to promote LGBT acceptance. > Films sometimes bend backwards to include China as a strong and moral ally. Sorry, are you just this making stuff up or do you live in that much of an echo chamber? None of this reflects anything about mainstream American culture -- if anything, everythi…

A quick duckduckgo search will indicate that these assertions are correct. For example, see the second hit for ‘china funding american cinema’, from 2016: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/07/01/china-cens... And China has been involved in all sorts of questionable financing schemes with recent Hollywood films. There may be enclaves of people who are paying attention that ridicule China as the authoritarian…

[deleted]

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#379

Post by stale2002 »

darklajid wrote: post #328
ryacko wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in the West it is expected that token political statements are to be allowed and protected. "Free HK" isn't a particularly complex political statement, and it is over a topic which Westerners think is unfairly suppressed. A similar comparison would be if Saudi Arabia had Blizzard ban someone for saying "Don't execute rape victims."

> But in the West it is expected that token political statements are to be allowed and protected. Is that so? I could imagine a huuuge amount of political statements that are illegal in my home country, Germany. Since I was raised there these rules are ingrained in me: "Free Speech" is not a thing (if we compare it to the US) and - that's the important part - I don't DISAGREE with that. > "Free HK" isn't a particular…

> I could imagine a huuuge amount of political statements that are illegal in my home country, Germany. Since I was raised there these rules are ingrained in me: "Free Speech" is not a thing (if we compare it to the US)

Well I am sorry for the people who live in that country.

> compared to - say - supporting Texas leaving the US

I don't think many people would care if someone playing a video game said "Free Texas!". I certainly wouldn't. Go ahead and do that.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#380

Post by darklajid »

alex_c wrote: post #368
darklajid wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Context #1: there has been a years-long trend for Western entertainment media (movies, games) to cater to the Chinese market. This ranges from voluntary censorship that seems odd in the West (no skeletons?) to more sensitive topics like sexuality. I .. take your word for it. I'm not sure what the "no skeletons?" references and I'd argue that sexuality is already a pretty weird thing if you - say - take the US and E…

Blizzard absolutely has the right to punish Blitzchung for his statement, and I am sure he expected and accepted there would be consequences. The issue is, was the punishment: 1) Strictly because Blizzard did not want unauthorized political statements on its video game stream - perfectly understandable, or 2) Partly because Blizzard feared retaliation from China, and acted more harshly than it normally would. We can'…

> We can't know for sure from the outside, but context suggests 2 is more likely.

Can't it be .. both? And if we at least somewhat agree that this had to have consequences, why .. does it matter?

> For years American entertainment has been some of the most effective propaganda globally, now American citizens are indirectly starting to be exposed to Chinese propaganda (by avoiding content or topics) in American entertainment.

I'm not trying to be infuriating, but that seems something very American to worry about. As you write, American propaganda is huge worldwide (personally I cringe at - random examples - Independence Day speeches or Captain America). In addition, I don't quite understand how that is "propaganda" in the first place. Video games already tried to "censor" themselves before, to get around various gore acceptance level before for example. That's .. hardly propaganda. And if you build some erotic novel game that purposely avoids showing pubes and genitals to reach the Japanese market .. then I don't see censorship here either.

Now, I obviously don't deny that there IS censorship in general and around HK/TW specifically - I just feel the examples/comparisons aren't applicable?

> This is why I find this mess so fascinating

It certainly is interesting to observe, I agree.

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