California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
191–200 of 404 posts
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
That assumes a single school employee covers the entire span. Our school in NYC had different shifts — so 7am class teachers were not the same ones doing late afternoon classes.
To me this sounds line a great way to give teachers non-curricular overtime pay. It’s good for all parties involved to have a face-to-face relationship, and a way for our public school teachers to supplement their income if they so desire.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#193Wonderful. Now can we pay attention to all of the research saying that homework creates stress but doesn't work, and have schools stop assigning so much? More precisely, the research shows that homework done right helps, done wrong hurts, and the result is that more homework increases the correlation between parent's socioeconomic status and student performance. But on average is approximately net neutral for learnin…
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is true for me. Public schools are so horrible that it drives me insane just to think about it. And people brush it off because of some vague notion that there’s no other choice. Look at billy eilish. She’s fantastic and very successful and she was homeschooled. Palmer luckey who founded oculus and is now worth something like 500 million dollars, homeschooled. “I can’t afford homeschooling. I have never even tri…
Of course there are exceptions, but most homeschooled people I've met have displayed some sort of social deficiency. I wouldn't support a blanket statement that the solution is more home schooling.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone who lives in a country where schools all uniformly started at 9:00 am (i'm probably wrong on that, but lets just go with it), what's the social-background/theoretical reason for starting the school day at 7:00am? From the outside that just seems absolutely bonkers?
Remember that 7am in one place is not the same as 7am in another place. Time zones, latitude, seasons combine to cause big differences in what a time "means". For instance on the equator sunrise and sunset is very consistent and so people tend to wake up earlier so that they can maximise daylight. Closer to the poles, it makes sense for school days (which tend to be shorter than work days) to start around the time th…
Also the "famous" map is outdated at least by 5 years, Russia has switched from permanent summer time to permanent standard time in 2014. Wikimedia has an version[0] which is somewhat maintained.
[0] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:World_Time_Zones_Map...
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#196I don’t know what to say..I grew up in India. My mom would wake me up at 4.30, make me a hot beverage and go back to sleep. I would study in the early hours because she believed that early morning is the best time for the mind to absorb and retain what I study. Go for a brisk walk at 6.00 and leave for school by 7.15-7.30. School was from 8.30-3.30. 8.00-8.30 was morning assembly which was mandatory. Extra curricular…
You have to understand that not everyone does well in the morning. It's completely unfair to expect everyone to get up and be functioning at the same level in the early morning. That's going to advantage some, and disadvantage others. That's what this is about.
Nothing stops the early bird from getting up early and doing all the things you ascribe to.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#197I don’t know what to say..I grew up in India. My mom would wake me up at 4.30, make me a hot beverage and go back to sleep. I would study in the early hours because she believed that early morning is the best time for the mind to absorb and retain what I study. Go for a brisk walk at 6.00 and leave for school by 7.15-7.30. School was from 8.30-3.30. 8.00-8.30 was morning assembly which was mandatory. Extra curricular…
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/features/school-start-times/index.html
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#198School children are sleeping on average 1 hour less than theirs peers did 50 years ago. This has been driven by earlier and earlier school start times. Sleep deprivation in school age children has been linked to lower test scores, lower knowledge retention, higher rates of "trouble making". Really happy to see these laws getting put in place!
> This has been driven by earlier and earlier school start times What about later and later bed times?
Also, later school start times have in other states led to better academic performance, better behavior, etc., independent of any control for bedtime.
This decision has no downside. It's like mandating that hot dog vendors not sell disguised dog turds.
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#199I don’t know what to say..I grew up in India. My mom would wake me up at 4.30, make me a hot beverage and go back to sleep. I would study in the early hours because she believed that early morning is the best time for the mind to absorb and retain what I study. Go for a brisk walk at 6.00 and leave for school by 7.15-7.30. School was from 8.30-3.30. 8.00-8.30 was morning assembly which was mandatory. Extra curricular…
Studies show children don't perform as well in the early morning which is why this change was made. I don't want to de-value your experiences because they sound fantastic. However. Anecdota is not a substitute for science. I suggest skimming the summary by the Centers for Disease Control [1] which references numerous studies in support of schools starting later than 830am. You are of course welcome to wake your child…
Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am
#200I'm extremely oblivious to what the benefits to starting later are, and how stable the benefits will be over time. Anyone care to explain? I'm particularly concerned that this will incentivize students to just stay up later, negating many benefits of increased sleep.
Starting an hour layer improves SAT scores:
One of the first test cases happened in the township of Edina, Minnesota. Here, school start times for teenagers were shifted from 7:25 a.m. to 8:30 a.m. More striking than the forty-three minutes of extra sleep that these teens reported getting was the change in academic performance, indexed using a standardized measure called the Scholastic Assessment Test, or SAT.
In the year before this time change, the average verbal SAT scores of the top-performing students was a very respectable 605. The following year, after switching to an 8:30 a.m. start time, that score rose to an average 761 for the same top-tier bracket of students. Math SAT scores also improved, increasing from an average of 683 in the year prior to the time change, to 739 in the year after. Add this all up, and you see that investing in delaying school start times—allowing students more sleep and better alignment with their unchangeable biological rhythms—returned a net SAT profit of 212 points. That improvement will change which tier of university those teenagers go to, potentially altering their subsequent life trajectories as a consequence.
(This is one example, that has been replicated many times, he covers more in the book.)
It saves even saves lives:
Yet something even more profound has happened in this ongoing story of later school start times—something that researchers did not anticipate: the life expectancy of students increased. The leading cause of death among teenagers is road traffic accidents, and in this regard, even the slightest dose of insufficient sleep can have marked consequences, as we have discussed. When the Mahtomedi School District of Minnesota pushed their school start time from 7:30 to 8:00 a.m., there was a 60 percent reduction in traffic accidents in drivers sixteen to eighteen years of age. Teton County in Wyoming enacted an even more dramatic change in school start time, shifting from a 7:35 a.m. bell to a far more biologically reasonable one of 8:55 a.m. The result was astonishing—a 70 percent reduction in traffic accidents in sixteen- to eighteen-year-old drivers.
To place that in context, the advent of anti-lock brake technology (ABS)—which prevents the wheels of a car from seizing up under hard braking, allowing the driver to still maneuver the vehicle—reduced accident rates by around 20 to 25 percent. It was deemed a revolution. Here is a simple biological factor—sufficient sleep—that will drop accident rates by more than double that amount in our teens.
There's more reasons, like improving attendance and decreasing drug/alcohol use, but these are the ones that stuck out to me. There was another statistic that I can't immediately find a quotation for that was pretty mind-blowing for me, which was that in university, the difference in performance in controls and students who started class an hour later was equivalent to the difference between controls and students who had a professor a standard deviation above the average. They even showed that this was dose dependent (an extra hour later had more effect). I think it's pretty incredible, considering the skill gap between an average professor and a great one, that simply taking a class at a 10am instead of 8am can increase learning so much.
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501...