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California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

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Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#51

Post by topkai22 »

DenisM wrote: post #32

The "early wakeup time makes people groggy" story always looked puzzling to me. I mean, when DST kicks in everyone adjusts in day or two. What prevents one from setting up their own personal DST and getting up earlier still? Certainly not biology.

Every time this comes up, I recommend "Internal Time" by Till Roenneburg. It is wonderfully written, and it demolishes this concept quite thoroughly. It really is biology.

Summary of the book as relates here though: People really do have internal clocks and preferred awake/sleep cycles. These internal clocks vary between individuals, and are there is most likely a genetic component. These internal clocks vary with age- in particular, teenagers and young adults clocks are generally shifted much later than kids or older adults. Shifts to people's schedules (such as DST) that cause them to leave their preferred sleep/awake cycle mitigate with time, but do not fully go away.

Outside that book, there are plenty of studies showing that a non-standard hours shift work is biologically harmful.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#53

Post by MauranKilom »

DenisM wrote: post #32

The "early wakeup time makes people groggy" story always looked puzzling to me. I mean, when DST kicks in everyone adjusts in day or two. What prevents one from setting up their own personal DST and getting up earlier still? Certainly not biology.

It certainly is biology. Your circadian rhythm is strongly influenced by the timing of day (well, blue) light being received by your eyes. It also shifts naturally as you age - for example, in your teenage years you tend to fall asleep and wake up later.

There are also interesting effects like the significant differences in school performance between students living at the eastern edge of a time zone vs living at the western.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#54

Post by cgriswald »

briandear wrote: post #21
dsalzman wrote: post #4

School children are sleeping on average 1 hour less than theirs peers did 50 years ago. This has been driven by earlier and earlier school start times. Sleep deprivation in school age children has been linked to lower test scores, lower knowledge retention, higher rates of "trouble making". Really happy to see these laws getting put in place!

> This has been driven by earlier and earlier school start times What about later and later bed times?

Humans get tired from being up for a certain number of hours and also from waning daylight. In teens, both of these are delayed relative to adults and children. You can send a teen to bed early but their bodies aren’t trying to sleep.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#55

Post by btilly »

Wonderful.

Now can we pay attention to all of the research saying that homework creates stress but doesn't work, and have schools stop assigning so much?

More precisely, the research shows that homework done right helps, done wrong hurts, and the result is that more homework increases the correlation between parent's socioeconomic status and student performance. But on average is approximately net neutral for learning.

But there is one very strong correlation. More homework means more conflict in the home...

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#56

Post by cgriswald »

awillen wrote: post #2

I didn't even realize schools started before 8... I believe that's when my high school started. Thinking back to the useless slug that I was in the mornings as a teenager, I can't imagine this will do anything but help learning. If only there had been a law saying college classes couldn't start before 11am (or 2pm on Fridays) when I was there...

For us, first period started at 7:10. I had a zero hour class that started some weird amount less than an hour before that.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#57

Post by Alupis »

briandear wrote: post #21
dsalzman wrote: post #4

School children are sleeping on average 1 hour less than theirs peers did 50 years ago. This has been driven by earlier and earlier school start times. Sleep deprivation in school age children has been linked to lower test scores, lower knowledge retention, higher rates of "trouble making". Really happy to see these laws getting put in place!

> This has been driven by earlier and earlier school start times What about later and later bed times?

> What about later and later bed times?

This is the real factor. When I was a kid - it was in bed, lights out and go to sleep at 9pm the latest during school nights - strictly enforced by my parents.

Now I regularly see small children (< 10 years old) out at the store past 10pm or 11pm on school nights.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#58

Post by rolltiide »

Hermitian909 wrote: post #48
meristem wrote: post #34

Unfortunately, the school systems still rely on one parent at home. It is not just drop off and pick up times: school activities, parent-teacher conferences, etc. For example, in the SF Unified District, school tours for parents of kids entering kindergarten, middle school and high school are during the school hours, mostly in the morning. It is all built around the expectation of a parent at home or a job structure…

I can tell you that, through most of the bay area at least, those policies are mostly about intentional socioeconomic segregation. My family has deep ties to local education infrastructure and its well known that most of the advocates for these policies are trying to keep poor kids out of their schools. While they don't say it in public forums they're generally more than happy to tell you in private.

Exactly, gatekeeping everyone that doesn't have two Au Pair that are taking turns sunbathing on your terrace

also, squad goals.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#59

Post by proverbialbunny »

socalnate1 wrote: post #3

My high school started at 7am. I also took the bus; which picked up around 6:15am; so I usually woke up around 5:45am during the week. I would often nod off during my first or second period; and routinely took 2-3 hour naps when I got home from school; which screwed up my ability to fall asleep early at night or get much homework done. I sometimes wonder what my academics would have been like if I was actually awake…

My solution is I would come home at around 3-4pm (after hanging out with friends for an hour) and then sleep for about 8 hours. I'd wake up around midnight and have a good ~5 hours to myself. With my parents asleep I'd cook for myself and do my homework and watch tv. When I had zero period having a rotated sleep schedule only helped. It was like living alone. I preferred the responsibility and the sleep schedule. There is nothing quite like that 3-4am calm in the morning.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#60

Post by driverdan »

jumpingmice wrote: post #19
socalnate1 wrote: post #3

My high school started at 7am. I also took the bus; which picked up around 6:15am; so I usually woke up around 5:45am during the week. I would often nod off during my first or second period; and routinely took 2-3 hour naps when I got home from school; which screwed up my ability to fall asleep early at night or get much homework done. I sometimes wonder what my academics would have been like if I was actually awake…

I don’t get how this is supposed to work with sports and other activities. In high school I had water polo/swimming practice mornings at 6:15. Is that now illegal?

It should be. There's a lot of research showing that kids need 8+ hours of sleep even more than adults.
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