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Ohio Was Set to Purge 235,000 Voters. It Was Wrong About 20%

nytimes.com

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Re: Ohio Was Set to Purge 235,000 Voters. It Was Wrong About 20%

#121

Post by andrewla »

slg wrote: post #117
andrewla wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're replying to a different point than the GP was making -- the "major party" you are (I assume) referencing is also the party that backs Voter ID laws, which the GP was explicitly pointing out as a solution to the problem.

It is fundamentally the same point since that party doesn't want to make it easy and free to get a voter ID. If you have to take a day off work to go to the DMV or need to pay some fee to get your ID, then requiring ID is in practice making it harder to vote. If you want to require a voter ID, it is the duty of the government to assure that everyone citizen who wants one has one.

Everybody has an ID. Find a study that shows differently (for example [1]) and you'll be able to see how obviously synthetic it is. I have no doubt that the people who are opposing Voter ID have no nefarious motive, but there's a lot of confirmation bias at work that creates a false narrative that getting a photo ID is "difficult" and that people without photo IDs are common and disproportionately minorities.

[1] https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/d/d...

Re: Ohio Was Set to Purge 235,000 Voters. It Was Wrong About 20%

#122

Post by notfromhere »

_fq4v wrote: post #111
notfromhere wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Secretary of State is Republican, and surprise, the GOP pursues policies that restrict the ballot in a way that benefits them and disadvantages Democrats. Ohio is a state where the GOP holds 75% of federal House seats despite winning only 50% of the vote. Similar effect holds for the state legislative offices

80% of 235,000 is 188,000. Your argument is that it is okay to keep 188,000 invalid voters on the books because otherwise the republicans might win? Don't you see how fraudulent or no-longer-active voter registrations may bring about questions of legitimacy? 188,000 is no small number of people. Trump won Ohio with a smaller margin.

If the state can't put together a list that doesn't disenfranchise one in every five voters on it, it shouldn't bother.

Voter fraud is a non-existent issue and these mass-removals serve no basis except as cover to remove voters that don't support their party.

Re: Ohio Was Set to Purge 235,000 Voters. It Was Wrong About 20%

#123

Post by specialist »

yalogin wrote: post #87

This is how republicans are in elections. I mean not all districts can be jerrymandered, so voter purge is a must.

It's not just purging.

Think of voting like a sales pipeline. Any friction whatsoever reduces the conversion rate.

Every little extra bureaucratic step disenfranchises voters.

Re: Ohio Was Set to Purge 235,000 Voters. It Was Wrong About 20%

#124

Post by fsh »

maze-le wrote: post #104
mschuster91 wrote: post #51

In Germany we do not have this problem (neither voter suppression nor voter fraud), for a multitude of reasons: 1) everyone has a government-provided ID document: a passport, for German nationals the ID card Personalausweis also works, and for EU nationals (who can vote in municipal and EU elections) their country's ID document 2) the legal requirement to register at the city/region office ("Meldebehörde") where you…

Oh well you know, stuff like this also happens: https://wahlen.sachsen.de/LW_19.php?wahlkreis=51&_cp=%7B%22t... ----- State elections in saxony this year. Look at the table underneath the map: Wahlberechtigte -- eligible to vote -- 1 722 Wähler -- voters -- 2 083 -- 121,0 %

This has been debunked in the German media a million times. Absentee ballots are not necessarily counted in the district where the voter is registered, which makes the number of votes cast exceed the number of people egligible to vote in some districts. The website even says that the district was collecting absentee ballots for five other districts as well.

Re: Ohio Was Set to Purge 235,000 Voters. It Was Wrong About 20%

#125

Post by bearcobra »

andrewla wrote: post #121
slg wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is fundamentally the same point since that party doesn't want to make it easy and free to get a voter ID. If you have to take a day off work to go to the DMV or need to pay some fee to get your ID, then requiring ID is in practice making it harder to vote. If you want to require a voter ID, it is the duty of the government to assure that everyone citizen who wants one has one.

Everybody has an ID. Find a study that shows differently (for example [1]) and you'll be able to see how obviously synthetic it is. I have no doubt that the people who are opposing Voter ID have no nefarious motive, but there's a lot of confirmation bias at work that creates a false narrative that getting a photo ID is "difficult" and that people without photo IDs are common and disproportionately minorities. [1] htt…

I'm not sure I understand what objections would be to the study you cite.

Re: Ohio Was Set to Purge 235,000 Voters. It Was Wrong About 20%

#126

Post by ilikehurdles »

rdtsc wrote: post #33

> She went online and discovered that her name had also been flagged as an inactive voter. The state was in the process of removing her from its voter rolls. > “I voted three times last year,” said Ms. Miller. I am still baffled at the election system in this country. Every state does its own thing. One state uses paper, other uses some machines which can be easily hacked, some use both. Somehow voter ID is controver…

Voter ID doesn't solve the problem of outdated/invalid voter rolls at all. I can have an ID from a state I no longer live in for many years after I move out of that state. I can also have an expired ID for the state I currently live in. If I don't regularly buy alcohol or drive, I probably won't feel hard-pressed to spend a day renewing my ID.

Re: Ohio Was Set to Purge 235,000 Voters. It Was Wrong About 20%

#127

Post by tathougies »

notfromhere wrote: post #122
_fq4v wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

80% of 235,000 is 188,000. Your argument is that it is okay to keep 188,000 invalid voters on the books because otherwise the republicans might win? Don't you see how fraudulent or no-longer-active voter registrations may bring about questions of legitimacy? 188,000 is no small number of people. Trump won Ohio with a smaller margin.

If the state can't put together a list that doesn't disenfranchise one in every five voters on it, it shouldn't bother. Voter fraud is a non-existent issue and these mass-removals serve no basis except as cover to remove voters that don't support their party.

You don't think removing dead or moved voters is important? This is not about voter fraud. This is just about keeping your records in order, and making sure no one can raise suspicions about your electoral mechanisms.

Re: Ohio Was Set to Purge 235,000 Voters. It Was Wrong About 20%

#128

Post by weberc2 »

slg wrote: post #117
andrewla wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're replying to a different point than the GP was making -- the "major party" you are (I assume) referencing is also the party that backs Voter ID laws, which the GP was explicitly pointing out as a solution to the problem.

It is fundamentally the same point since that party doesn't want to make it easy and free to get a voter ID. If you have to take a day off work to go to the DMV or need to pay some fee to get your ID, then requiring ID is in practice making it harder to vote. If you want to require a voter ID, it is the duty of the government to assure that everyone citizen who wants one has one.

I'm totally fine with requiring an ID _and_ making it easy for legitimate voters to get one. I don't understand why there are people who are opposed to voter ID requirements (full stop), as though they are inherently racist.

Re: Ohio Was Set to Purge 235,000 Voters. It Was Wrong About 20%

#129

Post by neonIcon »

slg wrote: post #117
andrewla wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're replying to a different point than the GP was making -- the "major party" you are (I assume) referencing is also the party that backs Voter ID laws, which the GP was explicitly pointing out as a solution to the problem.

It is fundamentally the same point since that party doesn't want to make it easy and free to get a voter ID. If you have to take a day off work to go to the DMV or need to pay some fee to get your ID, then requiring ID is in practice making it harder to vote. If you want to require a voter ID, it is the duty of the government to assure that everyone citizen who wants one has one.

To do a laundry list[1] of other things that I would consider less important than voting requires an ID, which in turn requires you to go to the dreaded DMV. Is it the duty of the government to provide the ID for these people? Nope.

[1]] https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/24-things-that-require-a-... Almost every single one of which is either illegal, or very difficult to do without an ID.

Re: Ohio Was Set to Purge 235,000 Voters. It Was Wrong About 20%

#130

Post by sigzero »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #126
rdtsc wrote: post #33

> She went online and discovered that her name had also been flagged as an inactive voter. The state was in the process of removing her from its voter rolls. > “I voted three times last year,” said Ms. Miller. I am still baffled at the election system in this country. Every state does its own thing. One state uses paper, other uses some machines which can be easily hacked, some use both. Somehow voter ID is controver…

Voter ID doesn't solve the problem of outdated/invalid voter rolls at all. I can have an ID from a state I no longer live in for many years after I move out of that state. I can also have an expired ID for the state I currently live in. If I don't regularly buy alcohol or drive, I probably won't feel hard-pressed to spend a day renewing my ID.

And neither of those IDs would allow you to vote if it was implemented.
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