Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications • Hacker News Board

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#101

Post by slap_shot » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

arcturus17 wrote: post #95

slap_shot wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have several friends with top tier MBAs. They all got them in an effort to jump from the sell-side to the buy side, and most saw salary increases from 300-400k to 600k-1M+. The ROI on that specific career move is pretty clear and is really the only path I would personally justify for an MBA. They all say the course load and work is a joke. It's mostly an accreditation to the buy side hiring process and networking.

I don't know about your friends but the average salary out of an elite b-school is something like 160k in the best of cases [1], not the ranges you mention... Either they're total outliers, or you're talking about something like an exec MBA, or something else altogether. [1] https://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-b...

They are outliers, in that they all are in the very narrow path that I suggested is the only reason I would, personally, pursue an MBA: the MBA allowed them to jump from banking to Senior Associate roles at elite PE firms (Carlyle, Blackstone, KKR, Apollo).

It's by no means necessary, you'll find people at those firms without MBAs - a close friend of mine made the jump directly from banking and is well above the salary range I mentioned, but a top tier MBA helps.

It's also worth noting that a majority of compensation from these positions is from the carry on the person's fund (or a blend of all funds, like Blackstone does) and is based on fund performance. This isn't their base or otherwise guaranteed salary.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#102

Post by notfromhere » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

dannykwells wrote: post #100

I love these articles opining the end of thr MBA. All grad schools see a drop in applications during times of low unemployment. Law is the same. This is not due to any other factor, as much as people would like to believe.

There are also a number of quality universities shutting down their MBA programs as well. It's not just because of the unemployment rate.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#103

Post by mrmuagi » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

mattkrause wrote: post #11

phalangion wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My graduate program (computer-y, not MBA) has seen a huge drop in international applications. That was the large majority of our graduate program, and after 2016 those applications have dropped about 75%.

Meanwhile in Canada, international applications to McGill have shot up 50%. The driving factor is pretty obvious....

> The driving factor is pretty obvious....

As a Canadian I am stumped, surely people don't like cold weather :)

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#104

Post by alteria » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #15

I was ready to rant about my own experience with MBA students put in pseudo management situations who can't iron their own shirt or couldn't schedule people's hours at a Wendy's... but then I realized this article is about Elite programs. So I wonder are the Elite programs significantly different than other programs? One of my biggest problems encountering MBA students released into the wild is that so many have limi…

I think of "elite" (M7/T15/whatever) programs as an expensive recruiting mechanism.

To get in, you need great work experience, great recommenders, excellent test scores, and a great story. Basically things that signal you're generally pretty smart and can learn quickly.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#105

Post by tinyhouse » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

Good news. These programs are cash cows and the vast majority who apply for MBA do it for the wrong reasons (networking and a big name school on their resume). There are lots of MBAs from elite schools in my company and the gap is huge. Some are great but some are completely useless. Anyone can have an MBA from an elite school. You just need the money and be willing to spend it on a degree. (sorry MBA graduates, I know you gonna downvote this comment :))

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#106

Post by bertjk » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

airstrike wrote: post #74

rswail wrote: post #6

Good. The rise of the MBA has seen the downfall of quality. "Business Administration" is not something that can be taught in such a generic way that an MBA qualifies you to actually run a business. In particular, the rise of Financial "Engineering" has led to huge inequality and the total disconnection of "Wall St" from "Main St" such that their relationship has been completely inverted.

It's not really that generalized as you can pick 1 or more majors and focus on what you want to learn most. Not to mention each MBA school has different characteristics, attracting different candidates and campus recruiters. Stanford and Booth couldn't be more different if they tried. MBA graduates are also not fit for running literally any business. The only thing employers know is that if you come from a top 10 MBA…

I can accept the pretty smart part (I've never seen the GMAT but I'll accept it for the sake of argument) but what part of getting an MBA filters for "possessing soft skills, being personable, ready to meet with clients or manage people and probably well-connected"?

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#107

Post by ethbro » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 4:39 PM UTC

clairity wrote: post #84

rswail wrote: post #6

Good. The rise of the MBA has seen the downfall of quality. "Business Administration" is not something that can be taught in such a generic way that an MBA qualifies you to actually run a business. In particular, the rise of Financial "Engineering" has led to huge inequality and the total disconnection of "Wall St" from "Main St" such that their relationship has been completely inverted.

> "The rise of the MBA has seen the downfall of quality." specious and unsupported statement. what "quality" are you talking about? what "downfall" has there been? when, how and why did "it" rise in the first place? you're making a fundamental attribution error (a topic taught in an MBA program, no less) by hinting at structural issues that are much wider and far-reaching than a simple graduate degree. make a reasone…

The reorientation of companies, driven by MBA conventional wisdom, into shareholder-centric, stock-price optimizing machines has come at the detriment of building long term value and delivering better products to customers.

Rebuttal?

And let's center our conversation on the average MBA graduate. I'm sure there are schools with different approaches, but no true Scotsman doesn't seem like it would be productive.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#108

Post by cjf4 » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 4:39 PM UTC

tinyhouse wrote: post #105

Good news. These programs are cash cows and the vast majority who apply for MBA do it for the wrong reasons (networking and a big name school on their resume). There are lots of MBAs from elite schools in my company and the gap is huge. Some are great but some are completely useless. Anyone can have an MBA from an elite school. You just need the money and be willing to spend it on a degree. (sorry MBA graduates, I kn…

>Anyone can have an MBA from an elite school. You just need the money and be willing to spend it on a degree.

This is not true at all. Regardless of the value of the degree/experience, elite MBA programs are still difficult to get into and have low acceptance rates.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#109

Post by eastWestMath » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

airstrike wrote: post #96

iamasoftwaredev wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think 30%+ of my class were foreigners. Because foreign born people can't be rich? What income percentiles are Harvard MBA students coming from?

Many of us weren't. You claimed MBAs are exclusively for rich kids. I provided data to refute that baseless claim. The point on how many foreigners there were is just a freebie. I don't know about Harvard MBA students, I didn't go there. But you can go ahead and google each school's class profile. Maybe that info is out there.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#110

Post by ethbro » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #98

luc4sdreyer wrote: post #10

Applications are still growing, the highest was Canada with 9.4% growth between 2018 and 2019: > Applications to U.S. business schools, including M.B.A. programs, fell sharply, while rising in Canada, Europe and China. just not in the US: > “There’s perception, which we absolutely pick up in our data, that the U.S. is not a welcoming environment,” said Sangeet Chowfla, GMAC’s chief executive.

Doing a masters (or undergrad) in Canada is the backdoor to immigration. Once you graduate, you get an open work permit equal to the length of your program and can then apply for Permanent Residency through “Express Entry” based on your advanced degree and local experience. The desperation for local experience can really suppress wages in some fields. And you don’t need to prove that you’re not taking a position or a…

> The desperation for local experience can really suppress wages in some fields.

Isn't that good for the Canadian economy too?

I'm sure it's not great for Canadians looking for a job, but access to high-quality talent at below-market rates seems like it would be win/win.