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Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

swissdevjobs.ch

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Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#251

Post by 0xffff2 »

tumetab1 wrote: post #128
aripickar wrote: post #86

Like half of these are negatives, imo. 1) I've found places in the bay for way less than what they were saying, even without roommates. Its like 2k for a 1br in Lake Merritt, which is 15-20 minute BART to SF. 2) Yes startups that are pre-seed/ pre-series A will have crazy hours, but any big tech co. will be pretty close to 40 hours a week. My team is pretty big about work life balance, and we work at a place infamous…

Isn't the 46$ just that part you pay? In other words, isn't your employer paying the rest? This is just for clarification that we're comparing apples to apples.

Does it matter? Maybe if the employer was paying a lower salary to make up the difference it would, but everyone in this thread seems to agree that US developers get paid more too.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#252

Post by alteria »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #61
prophetjohn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and that's for a 538 sqft apartment. I don't know the specifics of the San Francisco rental market, but you can easily beat $4k/mo for a studio in desirable parts of Manhattan, so I assume the same is true of SV

$3000 will get you a not bad one bedroom in a old building with rent control in SF, or in a new building in the burbs.

You can do $3k for a 1BR/studio in a new building? I've been seeing >$3,600 in Peninsula currently.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#253

Post by asdfman123 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #140
asdfman123 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, a lot of the "pros" of living in Switzerland are basically the same as in the US. In any other low-key metropolis (Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Austin, Phoenix, Des Moines, whatever) a software developer with 5 years of experience can earn $130k and buy houses for $250k - $350k. If you're single, you can get luxury 1 BD apartments for $1500 in happening parts of town. Plus, in the enterprise world it's very easy t…

You obviously never lived in Switzerland. Can't explain all the US-CH differences in few words, but some benefits: better healthcare, better social system, much much safer, actually working public school system, great clean nature on your doorstep, I can be in 2 minutes of drive in beautiful France and 1 hour drive in Italy and rest of Europe is just around the corner. Very health and sport-oriented mentality. Super…

> Oh, and your tax dollars don't support wars making the world a significantly worse place with all the rest of evil attached, if you care about such things.

I'm not trying to sound defensive here, but in a global world there has to be a superpower or two playing the role of a superpower. And if you like Western democratic ideals, it's a good thing that they're aligned with those.

The whole world is living in the relatively peaceful and prosperous structure of alliances that were established after WWII, and I personally wouldn't want to see those disappear. Maybe if you live in China, Russia, Brazil, or the Middle East, or you have a different value system than I do, you might disagree.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#254

Post by kgwgk »

victor106 wrote: post #89
lukeqsee wrote: post #3

I'm an American expat in Switzerland working as an independent software developer and startup founder. I can agree with a lot of the points listed in the article, but they apply universally to almost all jobs (not just to software developers). I would raise a few points it doesn't mention: - Negatively, it is much harder to find meetups close to you that apply to you. Unless you're based in Zürich (the tech hub of th…

> Positively, I work from home. I have four providers I could get 1Gbps symmetrical, unmetered, business-class FTTH for less than 100,- CHF / month. It's hard to go wrong with that. I pay 79.99 USD a month for Verizon Fios 1 gbps in nyc. That is before a $200.00 credit. Fios is FTTH. That’s a good 20-25% discount to what you pay in Switzerland. Plus I heard from several colleagues and friends who are people of color…

The CEO of one of the three largest companies in Switzerland is of Indian origin (born in the US to Indian parents, I think).

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#255

Post by glup »

Double_a_92 wrote: post #122
xz0r wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that means that we can calculate your rent there to be between 30% to 48%. But I guess, just because it is in Switzerland, it should not be outrageous? The article assumes that you would share the flat with others. Sharing with 2 others would mean effective rent is 800-1300 CHF.

Also you don't necessarily have to live in Zürich city... Outside the city or in other parts of Switzerland you can find a decent flat for ~1500 CHF.

...with the cleanest, most on-time, and pleasant public transit you can imagine

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#256

Post by hocuspocus »

lacker wrote: post #227

The problem is, the salaries in Switzerland are terrible for good software engineers. This page says 120,000 CHF for 5 years of experience. That's around $120,000 USD. At Google, someone with that much experience is at least an L5. According to https://www.levels.fyi/ in the Silicon Valley region that gets you total comp of $360,000. Yeah, not everyone is making Google money. But a lot of software engineers around he…

An L5 at Google Zurich will earn almost the same as one in Mountain View, pay less taxes and have more vacation.

Sure there are more high paying jobs in the Bay Area, but there are also lots of start-ups that pay pretty average salaries plus monopoly money that make the total compensation look good on paper. Assuming everyone will eventually be in the top 10% is silly.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#257

Post by blunte »

This seems like just any old other "10 reasons for X" or whatever - blog fluff to help raise a brand. Rather than spend a lot of HN intellectual energy on it, we probably should have just passed it by...

That's not to say there aren't some really attractive reasons to be in Switzerland, but trying to compare it to SV is rather pointless (or too broad or too open to disagreement about which metrics matter, etc.).

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#258

Post by kiterunner2346 »

FWIW the women of Switzerland are IMO a bit easier on the eye than those of Silicon Valley:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=swiss+women&iax=images&ia=images

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=silicon+valley+women&ia=images&iax...

(OK, OK it's a tough contest: So flip a coin if this is your deciding factor!)

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#259

Post by bwanab »

saiya-jin wrote: post #140
asdfman123 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, a lot of the "pros" of living in Switzerland are basically the same as in the US. In any other low-key metropolis (Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Austin, Phoenix, Des Moines, whatever) a software developer with 5 years of experience can earn $130k and buy houses for $250k - $350k. If you're single, you can get luxury 1 BD apartments for $1500 in happening parts of town. Plus, in the enterprise world it's very easy t…

You obviously never lived in Switzerland. Can't explain all the US-CH differences in few words, but some benefits: better healthcare, better social system, much much safer, actually working public school system, great clean nature on your doorstep, I can be in 2 minutes of drive in beautiful France and 1 hour drive in Italy and rest of Europe is just around the corner. Very health and sport-oriented mentality. Super…

As an American who lived in Switzerland for a couple of years, I agree with all these points. If I could have, I would have stayed there.

Edit add: On the other hand, at least when I was there, the wages weren't comparable to US wages for similar work and management attitudes about software developers tended to border on considering them glorified typists.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#260

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

pkaye wrote: post #247
kornakiewicz wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but your pay is roughly correlated with the value of your labour. It is not. The value fire-fighters, teachers or nurses provide is much higher than, say, an enterprise developer, yet in most places the other earns more.

Some of those people do make a pretty good salary in California though. For example in Oakland, the Fire Department Captain makes $472k/year. https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2018/oakland/

How many positions for Oakland Dept Fire Captain are there? I’m in the market.
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