This is like the anti-encryption folks in government arguing no one can have secure communications because kiddie-porn. Baby, bathwater. rinse.
Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
381–388 of 388 posts
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'd think public policy prevents liability from complying with a valid court order in any event. Which public policy? > shouldn't Apple be equally as liabile for making phones that the police can crack, even if they don't use Apple to crack them? An enterprising lawyer can certainly find clients and file this lawsuit. Are there any alternative explanations? Why do you think Apple fought the case? The owners of the…
>Which public policy? Courts can and do rule based on what they perceive is in the public interest in the absence of any particular statute saying so. Imposing liability for complying with a court order seems unlikely to be considered in the public interest. >Are there any alternative explanations? Apple correctly thought they'd get a lot of positive PR with little downside. >A company that truly cared about privacy…
> Courts can and do rule based on what they perceive is in the public interest in the absence of any particular statute saying so.
This would be a civil case with a jury trial. Moreover, some of the victims could even be non-citizens of the countries that request Apple to extract the data, who would sue in their own countries.
> They basically did this with Secure Enclave. There's no PR benefit to admitting they could technically do something that they've never done, so its not surprising they didn't announce that.
There is a security benefit to warning users that what they were promised was not what they were delivered.
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
The OS comes from apple, too. How does sideloading help when the OS is backdoored? How does installing your own OS help when there is a backdoor in the hardware?
Sideloading helps to install the apps you want (or need), not the apps Apple allows you to use. Thing is, you buy a very expensive piece of hardware, and you don't even truly own it. Of course, Apple frames it as 'care to protect you from malware', but in reality, it's just a digital handcuff.
I agree with the points you make, but you are arguing in terms of freedom, not in terms of security.
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#384Apple caved under pressure from China. The explanation Cook gave is not just an embarrassment, it calls into question the veracity of all of his other statements. Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? And why should the US government be satisfied with a fully encrypted iMessage given that Apple will cave to d…
> Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? At least in China, you can probably assume iMessage is back-doored given that iCloud content in mainland China is operated by a Chinese internet company. Apple quietly posted this last week on their support page: "iCloud services in China mainland are now operated by Ch…
>Apple quietly posted this last week
Quietly? They issued a support article and it was big news in most news outlets when it was released.
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that Apple's stated rationale for removing the HKmap.live app is embarrassing and the removal is a capitulation to China's government. The reasons China's government has decried the app are bogus, but those false reports and allegations do not originate with Apple. However, Apple appears to be accepting those reasons at face value and probably because Apple is kowtowing. Regarding whether iMessage is free fro…
> However, Apple has not to date lied about what they are doing and we do not yet have a reason to doubt their representations about the security of their encryption. Did you read the original link, or the memo it linked to? "the app was being used maliciously to target individual officers for violence and to victimize individuals and property where no police are present." This was written by Tim Cook, speaking for A…
>That is Apple lying about what they are doing.
That is a ludicrous interpretation of that statement, in my opinion. Apple is being told by the government of a nation they're operating under that the law has been broken and that those things happened. What is Apple supposed to do in this case? Tell China "we don't believe you" and then what? You think China is going to change its tune? Or do you think Apple can get away with saying "Ok, fine! We're not going to do business here!" with zero repercussions?
This is not Apple lying. This is Apple making public what they were told by the Chinese government. Apple is not the bad guy here. China is.
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
Removal of an app is not enabling the violation of human rights. Now if Apple turned over the name and address of every person who had the app, that'd be the enabling of violating human rights.
> Removal of an app is not enabling the violation of human rights. Now if Apple turned over the name and address of every person who had the app, that'd be the enabling of violating human rights. This is the line you want to draw? "I didn't help them tear gas the protestors, I just made it harder for protestors to avoid being tear gassed?"
That is an incredibly flawed statement. Apple's not the one putting any barricades up. The Chinese government is.
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Removal of an app is not enabling the violation of human rights. Now if Apple turned over the name and address of every person who had the app, that'd be the enabling of violating human rights. This is the line you want to draw? "I didn't help them tear gas the protestors, I just made it harder for protestors to avoid being tear gassed?"
That is an incredibly flawed statement. Apple's not the one putting any barricades up. The Chinese government is.
No, it's Apple. The Chinese government is crying, and Apple, being the spineless company that it is, buckled under the slightest bit of pressure. Apple removed the app from their app store. Apple is in complete control of what apps are in there.
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
> However, Apple has not to date lied about what they are doing and we do not yet have a reason to doubt their representations about the security of their encryption. Did you read the original link, or the memo it linked to? "the app was being used maliciously to target individual officers for violence and to victimize individuals and property where no police are present." This was written by Tim Cook, speaking for A…
>That is Apple lying about what they are doing. That is a ludicrous interpretation of that statement, in my opinion. Apple is being told by the government of a nation they're operating under that the law has been broken and that those things happened. What is Apple supposed to do in this case? Tell China "we don't believe you" and then what? You think China is going to change its tune? Or do you think Apple can get a…
Read this:
https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/10/10/cook-hkmap-live...
Once again, Apple is in complete control of their App Store. They are the ones who decided to remove the app because of financials. This is the price of doing business in China.