Zurich’s strength is also that it’s centrally located in Europe, within 1-2 hours of France, Germany, and Italy and close to mountains for skiing. There are also some serious negatives ignored in the article. First, weather is a lot worse than in California. It’s wet and cold. Second, they speak Swiss German, which means all administrative forms are in that language. Most people will speak English, at least in a business setting but it’s not as easy as in London or even Amsterdam. If you have kids they will grow up speaking German. Another negative is the price of food and restaurants and the lack of food diversity.
Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
171–180 of 345 posts
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#172I'm an American expat in Switzerland working as an independent software developer and startup founder. I can agree with a lot of the points listed in the article, but they apply universally to almost all jobs (not just to software developers). I would raise a few points it doesn't mention: - Negatively, it is much harder to find meetups close to you that apply to you. Unless you're based in Zürich (the tech hub of th…
> Positively, I work from home. I have four providers I could get 1Gbps symmetrical, unmetered, business-class FTTH for less than 100,- CHF / month. It's hard to go wrong with that. I pay 79.99 USD a month for Verizon Fios 1 gbps in nyc. That is before a $200.00 credit. Fios is FTTH. That’s a good 20-25% discount to what you pay in Switzerland. Plus I heard from several colleagues and friends who are people of color…
Deutsche Bank used to have an Indian CEO
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anshu_Jain
Most European CEOs/presidents just aren't as well known as the US behemoths.
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#173Cons: no Sun and the salaries seem to be capped at CHF 120-140K. Has that old school European mindset that managers and MBAs should be paid more than individual contributors, engineers.
This is my experience as well. Even with > 10 years experience, it's hard to find engineering jobs paying > 120k. > In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF and if you are single and open to living with other people you can find a room in something called Wohngemeinde for as little as 800-1000 CHF. Good luck if you have a family, it's ~4k for 4.5 rooms (100sqm). Che…
I know at least 6 other devs (backend, frontend, mobile) who work in Zurich that don't make it past 110k with 5+ years of experience.
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#174How is it better if the salaries are lower. I am tired of engineers should care about their "craft" above all else dictums. Software engineering is somehow more pure and innocent than evil finance ( for example). I would rather earn a lot in my prime and retire early to a place of my choosing.
There's a lot of people who care about more than just raw salary. I could get a higher salary in the Bay Area but my quality of life would drop substantially. It's not worth it. And although my paycheck would go up, my discretionary income would drop substantially as well. It doesn't matter if I get paid 2x if my cost of living is 3x and my commute time is 5x.
>although my paycheck would go up, my discretionary income would drop substantially as well
yes that won't meet my original criteria then
> I would rather earn a lot in my prime and retire early to a place of my choosing.
agree with this, this won't let me retire early
> It doesn't matter if I get paid 2x if my cost of living is 3x
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#175The price comparison reads like a joke from my $500 a month, 2 bedroom, nice neighbourhood apartment in Sofia, Bulgaria. Also, probably saving more money than I would in Switzerland. "If you are a Software Developer living in Europe then there is a better place for you - and this place is Switzerland." Ha-ha Yeah, it's probably not bad in Switzerland, just some of the arguments are really funny. Also: https://en.wiki…
How are salaries in Bulgaria?
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#176What about formal requirements? The software field in the US is known for not caring a whole lot about people's educational backgrounds as long as they can do the job. Is Switzerland the same or are degrees hard requirements?
> Is Switzerland the same or are degrees hard requirements?
It's mixed. Some companies don't care, some do. In my experience, engineers usually don't care, HR sometimes does. So it's mostly getting past HR by playing bullshit bingo in your CV and list any tech you've ever heard of as 'intermediate' skill level so HR finds something when they Ctrl+F.
Not sure about getting a work permit/visa though, it likely won't help not to have formal education.
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#177The tax section is incredibly misleading. For Ireland, the 12.5% tax rate is corporation tax, not for individuals. The effective income tax rate in Ireland for dev level salaries is 40%+, after a point your marginal tax rate becomes 52%.
Quickly looking into it, all the tax rates look like the corporation tax. The graph is blatantly wrong across the board.
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm in Vienna and its pretty normal here to rent for 40-50% of your salary. otherwise you'd move to the far outskirts of the city.
Ah yes, this is exactly why I'm not in Vienna. Software developers are curiously underpaid in Austria. I got offered a better salary even in Brno (Brünn), which is a much cheaper place. A pity, Vienna is a beautiful city and consistently ranks among the best places to live.
I mean its pretty strange in Austria, In smaller cities "Graz, Linz" where rent could be as low as 50% lower than Vienna, you'd get pretty much the same salary.
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#179Zurich’s strength is also that it’s centrally located in Europe, within 1-2 hours of France, Germany, and Italy and close to mountains for skiing. There are also some serious negatives ignored in the article. First, weather is a lot worse than in California. It’s wet and cold. Second, they speak Swiss German, which means all administrative forms are in that language. Most people will speak English, at least in a busi…
> Second, they speak Swiss German, which means all administrative forms are in that language.
All government forms are in (High/Schrift) German, French, and Italian.
> lack of food diversity.
This is certainly true.
Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers
#180The list seems like a dream, especially the healthcare part and the neutrality of the Swiss, not as extreme and divided. The housing, taxes and pay are icing on the cake. To top it off, Switzerland looks like a dreamland with all those amazing views.
What housing do you mean? It is truly amazing here in many aspects, but housing is worse than rest of Europe. Rents are very high, you compete with many many people so any drawback on your resume (non-perfect job, kids, pets, coming from non-cool country) disqualifies you quickly. Houses/apartments are old, badly designed since there is little pressure to improve (people will come anyway). This is valid for biggest c…
Good to know on the housing.
I guess it just sucks everywhere in terms of availability, quality and space in a good market location. SV is just as bad or worse.
There has to be a way to fix that, how nice would it be for hot markets to have housing? The problem is hot markets for jobs/economy/investment are also hot markets for real estate rents.
It sucks as a worker you have to live somewhat disheveled and less than you need or far away just to work in a good market. Remote working for the win where applicable.