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New rules for contractors have unexpected consequences for strip clubs

sfexaminer.com

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Re: New rules for contractors have unexpected consequences for strip clubs

#2
Law of unintended consequences, maybe? California did something pretty bold, and only time will tell if it was a good idea or not. Seems like there's a lot of fallout though, so far. Anecdotally, I know a few people whose small businesses were impacted by the change; neither knew it was even an issue until one was sued by a contractor they'd been working with for a few years. I wonder what kind of due diligence the State went through when making this broad-sweeping change.

Re: New rules for contractors have unexpected consequences for strip clubs

#3
"This whole business will be completely ruined. The whole point about being a stripper is you go in, get fast cash, no one knows how you’re getting it, it’s not documented and it’s not taken from you."

Sorry not sorry that you have to actually start paying taxes on your income like the rest of us. Some of these quotes are really helping to make the case for the law.

Re: New rules for contractors have unexpected consequences for strip clubs

#4
The "traditional" standard here is for strippers to obviously be employees but get called contractors to evade paperwork, taxes, and required employee benefits, which is exactly the kind of situation these new standards are intended to prevent. I don't see anything "unexpected" about the result.

Re: New rules for contractors have unexpected consequences for strip clubs

#5
> “The BSC-managed clubs now have matching payroll taxes, unemployment compensation, workman’s compensation, Healthy San Francisco costs, Affordable Care Insurance costs, and SF sick leave pay for several hundred new employee entertainers in addition to the hourly wage,” he wrote.

Translation: "Our business was profitable only when we got to avoid following the same rules that all other employers have to follow." That goes for both the entertainers and the establishments.

Sounds like this is the expected result to me. In a free and fair market, price is a genuine signal of relative scarcity. CA has removed a particular factor that skewed prices in some labor markets. The result should be a correction in those markets.

Re: New rules for contractors have unexpected consequences for strip clubs

#6
Reading the article, it seems like the primary complaint is that, since the business has to pay things like social security, payroll taxes, worker's comp, etc. that they then have to withhold this money before they pay the workers, rather than have the workers withhold this themselves?

It sounds a lot more like the complaints are "I was making $X before because I was underreporting my income, but now that the business is on the hook for all this, I'm being forced to comply and am finding that the work isn't profitable enough anymore". Which translates to me as everyone else, who was paying into all these public tax pools, was essentially subsidizing the dancers.

I guess you could argue that some of the stuff, like workman's comp, some people might want to just pocket the money that otherwise would've gone to insuring the risk of being injured on the job. Which I think is maybe irresponsible, since otherwise the burden just ends up getting shifted, again, to the general public (worker injured without worker's comp then ends up on food stamps, or ends up getting their medical debt written off, etc). So we should probably require people to directly pay into these things, like we require people to maintain liability auto insurance.

And I suppose you could also say that maybe the businesses are taking the opportunity to pocket some extra profit, but hopefully the invisible hand of the free market would compete that back down as employees and customers move around based on new pricing/comp.

Re: New rules for contractors have unexpected consequences for strip clubs

#7
Quotes from Darla:

> "This whole business will be completely ruined. The whole point about being a stripper is you go in, get fast cash, no one knows how you’re getting it, it’s not documented and it’s not taken from you"

>“Not one of those girls had a check for two weeks over $300. There was a lot of upset. A lot of girls packed up to leave that night. I was one of those girls,” Darla said.

1. Pay your taxes like everyone else.

2. Form your own LLC to contract talent out, call it whatever you like and no one is going to look at your pay stub to know what you do

3. The reason the performers had poor pay was because the club owner was paying them poorly. Ask for more money, because clearly the clubs are losing it by not paying their employees appropriately.

Weirdly enough, this regulation seems like it should spur some classic market capitalism in the strip club business. It appears that the labor is in short supply and demand is rising, so you'd think they'd ask for more than minimum wage!

Re: New rules for contractors have unexpected consequences for strip clubs

#8

The "traditional" standard here is for strippers to obviously be employees but get called contractors to evade paperwork, taxes, and required employee benefits, which is exactly the kind of situation these new standards are intended to prevent. I don't see anything "unexpected" about the result.

Not disagreeing, but the article mentioned the element of being an employee and getting assigned work rather than getting to pick and choose.

The tax situation could be cleaned up without making them employees.

Re: New rules for contractors have unexpected consequences for strip clubs

#9
post #3

"This whole business will be completely ruined. The whole point about being a stripper is you go in, get fast cash, no one knows how you’re getting it, it’s not documented and it’s not taken from you." Sorry not sorry that you have to actually start paying taxes on your income like the rest of us. Some of these quotes are really helping to make the case for the law.

I think the businesses are ruined—they probably legitimately don’t make enough money to pay a living wage and the necessary benefits with their current business model. I don’t see this as a problem in the long term for the strippers—unauditable cash will still rule.

And frankly, let’s start with taxing other places, this really doesn’t strike me as a place of conspicuous tax avoidance compared to, say, the board room.

Re: New rules for contractors have unexpected consequences for strip clubs

#10
Essentially what's happening is that now the club owners have to pay a bunch of taxes they managed to avoid paying before. The dancers themselves were likely not paying as much in taxes as they were supposed to, but now, with paycheck withholding, they're probably paying more in taxes than they used to.

The clubs, in order to compensate for all the "new" taxes, are only paying minimum wage, and are taking larger cuts of private dance fees from the dancers than they were before, and are in some cases tacking on new fees dancers have to pay, like "private room rental".

Dancers might be getting better benefits under the new rules (health insurance, sick days), but might not, since some of these benefits require minimum weekly hours worked that the dancers mostly don't meet. Dancers are also feeling pressure to be less choosy about what things they're willing to do for different customers, since "it's their job".

Really what it boils down to is that these are not sustainable businesses at the prices they currently charge customers, unless they also avoid paying a bunch of taxes. If they want to keep their dancers from quitting, they'll likely have to raise prices enough to get a similar amount of cash into the hands of their dancers, while also meeting their tax obligations. Not sure if that increase in cost will decrease demand to the point where it just won't work.

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