Live data from Hacker News

Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

nibblestew.blogspot.com

431–440 of 712 posts

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#431
post #190

Meh. I bailed out of the Mac ecosystem last year, as my mid-2012 retina Macbook was finally getting too creaky, and the latest Mac hardware was a regression in many respects, while simultaneously utterly unaffordable. I'm now dual-booting Ubuntu/Windows 10 on a Dell XPS 15". What this experience has taught me is that computing in 2019 basically sucks. The problems with 2000-era Linux, as described in the article, are…

I was linux-only from 2002 to about 2009, on laptops, when I switched to Mac. I just set up a linux desktop for kicks the last couple of weeks, and it doesn't seem to me to be any better than it was a decade ago. * No way to adjust mouse scroll speed; official answer seems to be "don't want that". (Or install imwheel and change your mouse scroll to be equal to hitting the down button (!) which breaks other stuff) * T…

Having used Linux since about 2000, gnome has regressed and KDE has improved. I switched to KDE about a year ago and haven't looked back:

> * No way to adjust mouse scroll speed; official answer seems to be "don't want that". (Or install imwheel and change your mouse scroll to be equal to hitting the down button (!) which breaks other stuff)

- Never had to do this, but I checked. Under "Input Devices" I see "Mouse wheel scrolls by:" as a setting

> * To make an icon on the favorites bar in gnome, you have to edit a .desktop text file! Madness. I mean, I'm a programmer, so I'm capable of it, but it's seriously annoying

- With KDE you can drag any application to the quicklaunch widget, or right-click to add.

> * modifying keyboard shortcuts is extremely difficult; I really wish linux had a karabiner equivalent

I've not used Karabiner, but a quick look does make it look more feature-complete than any single GUI tool I know of on linux. However, keyboard shortcuts are all configurable from a central place on KDE. My biggest downside is that the organization of the "Global Shortcuts" has a UI that only makes sense to a KDE developer. IMO a single list would be more useful than having categories.

> * searching for help usually yields results that are half a decade or more old, and it's very difficult to figure out if it's current advice or not

True of most systems these days unfortunately; looking for the date of the post on forums/stack-overflow helps

> * installing a gnome-shell extension was way more difficult than it should be

I've not needed to install a KDE widget that wasn't in the base setup, so I cannot comment.

> * brew isn't the best, but on linux I need to use both brew _and_ apt because you can't reliably get anything approaching up-to-date software with apt

I have nothing good to say about Ubuntu in general except that it's popularity means that it is easier to get the correct answer by googling. It is by far the most finicky distro I've administered, including Gentoo (which is so high-maintenance that you should only run it if administering systems is a fun hobby). If you want up-to-date software from your package manager, use a rolling release distro. Otherwise the best you can do is something like a base setup and then side-load the software you want. This problem has been identified to the point where there are several brew-like systems (and things like snap as well), but no clear winner yet.

> I remain reasonably happy with it, but Mac is still so far ahead of it in terms of usability it's wild.

I think this will always be true. The Mac has such a lead in "There is a bright path and things will be fine so long as you don't stray from it" coupled with the fact that they control both hardware and software means that there just don't seem to be enough people who both want a Linux like that and have the know-how to make it happen. The counterpoint is perhaps chromebooks, which occupy such a different price-point compared to macs that they make their own niche at least in primary and secondary education.

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#432
post #190

Meh. I bailed out of the Mac ecosystem last year, as my mid-2012 retina Macbook was finally getting too creaky, and the latest Mac hardware was a regression in many respects, while simultaneously utterly unaffordable. I'm now dual-booting Ubuntu/Windows 10 on a Dell XPS 15". What this experience has taught me is that computing in 2019 basically sucks. The problems with 2000-era Linux, as described in the article, are…

Been using macOS and Ubuntu for years now, and while I try to make Ubuntu my primary operating system so I can ditch my slow MacBook Air 2018, I always end up going back to it.

Look, I love Ubuntu. Heck, I am a recognized Ubuntu Member, was the leader of the LoCo Team for my country for a while, helped a few universities in my state switch to Ubuntu from Windows, have a plaque signed by Mark Shuttleworth acknowledging my contributions and everything. But macOS is simply better, even though it sucks monkey balls right now — better for me, of course.

My Ubuntu machine — which I built to edit photos and game — currently runs on a Threadripper 2950X with two VEGA 64 GPUs. It should be a beast, and it is, but the entire computer freezes from time to time and requires a hard reboot to come back to life. Nothing I could find in the logs so far. Sometimes that happens once a week, sometimes it happens five times a day — heck, I had it happen right after a reboot once.

While the MacBook Air chokes when I open more than say, 45 tabs in Safari, I never had similar issues, and I only reboot this computer when I forget to charge it.

You can say Apple is dead all you want, but there will always be people like me that will go the Apple route because they are tired of troubleshooting shit all day — I spent a fair amount of time doing that in my earlier days, and I spend all day doing that at work, so why would I want to do that 24/7?

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still maintain that the problem is the UI toolkits. The mac ecosystem now has _multiple_ viable indesign and photoshop alternatives. AppKit, Cocoa, UIKit and all those frameworks gradually added all the features third party app developers hacked into their own UI libraries. GTK is something developers frequently curse about and theme developers frequently abandon because the gnome team keeps breaking their themes.…

And if you use the Apple toolkits, you lose around 95% of your potential market. For my project, Krita, made with Qt (not QT, Qt...), 90% of downloads are Windows, 7% Linux, 3% macOS. And since Apple seems hell-bent on making people share-croppers in their walled garden with asinine things like Metal, and notarizing and all that, well, in a year or two, it might be 0%, and I'll be fine with that.

That’s not because you have 3% macOS downloads that you can say that everyone loses around 95% potential downloads. It may simply be because your app is not marketed towards Mac users and alternatives exists.

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#434
post #190

Meh. I bailed out of the Mac ecosystem last year, as my mid-2012 retina Macbook was finally getting too creaky, and the latest Mac hardware was a regression in many respects, while simultaneously utterly unaffordable. I'm now dual-booting Ubuntu/Windows 10 on a Dell XPS 15". What this experience has taught me is that computing in 2019 basically sucks. The problems with 2000-era Linux, as described in the article, are…

Oddly enough my experience in years of computing on different platforms, including some exotic one, is the exact opposite. For me MacOS is the worst when it comes to external monitors.

It kinds works good enough, but never great.

Especially with old hardware.

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#435
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 4. MacBook Pro has 4 USB-C ports. Maybe we should specify it to mean USB ports you can use for something without an adapter.

Probably. Prior to the touchbar model I could: Charge, drive 2 displays, use a YubiKey, connect to a wired network and have a spare USB for charging my phone or connect a Time Machine backup. Without daisy chain or a hub that's no longer possible. I know I'm an outlier but still, new laptops offer less and less ports, including my Lenovo T580, and that's a shame for some.

>Prior to the touchbar model

Wait... why can't you do that anymore? I charge, drive 2 displays, and have several chargers and USB devices plugged in just via the 4 USB-C/Thunderbolt ports. Is your complaint the number of ports or the fact that they're USB-C? It sounds like the specific benefit was only the variety of ports unless I'm reading this wrong...

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux 2000: writing a post summarizing Linux's issues will compel a point by point response in which a fanboy will either tell you "works for me" or "you're holding it wrong". Apple 2019: writing a post summarizing Apple products' issues will compel a point by point response in which a fanboy will either tell you "works for me" or "you're holding it wrong".

It is worth noting that a Linux 2019 entry in that list would be also completely identical to Linux 2000.

Now try to connect your old Plextor SCSI cd burner to make 1x exact high fidelity copies of your CDs on a Mac in 2019 and then on Linux.

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is necessary for security. Still you can trivially disable updates for a week or report them again and again. What would be nice though is if they developed a live patching system like the modern Linux kernel allow which means: Windows partial updates without rebooting.

No operating system should update against the user's wishes. And this time the system didn't give me an option to delay, it simply let me know that it's about to restart and that I better save my work.

Sometimes people must be protected from themselves. Still, windows should allow you to delay it many times until forcing you, it's a shame it doesn't.

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#438
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This should do the trick. https://github.com/LumingYin/macOSLucidaGrande Note for me, this makes the ••• dots go away when typing passwords into system prompts. Fine!

Ah that’s what I paid €2k for a laptop for!

> paid €2k for a laptop

Really skimped and got a peasant model there, eh?

(Note that this is sarcasm directed at Apple’s pricing, not at rusk, who I assume is a very decent human being.)

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#439
post #190

Meh. I bailed out of the Mac ecosystem last year, as my mid-2012 retina Macbook was finally getting too creaky, and the latest Mac hardware was a regression in many respects, while simultaneously utterly unaffordable. I'm now dual-booting Ubuntu/Windows 10 on a Dell XPS 15". What this experience has taught me is that computing in 2019 basically sucks. The problems with 2000-era Linux, as described in the article, are…

I wholeheartedly agree. The state of personal computing in 2019 is one of uncomfortable compromises. I'm still using my Macs; I have a 2013 Mac Pro that I regularly use at home, a 2013 MacBook Air that I also regularly use whenever I'm not at home, and a work-issued 2018 MacBook Pro that I use all the time. I believe that the macOS experience and value proposition has regressed from what it was earlier this decade. I resent the move toward non-upgradeable RAM and storage, and I resent the higher prices, especially with the 2019 Mac Pro, which starts at $5999 (compare that to the $2999 entry-level price of the 2013 Mac Pro). I am also concerned about the direction of the Mac; I am concerned that within the next five years the Mac will be a locked-down platform with some allowances for programmability.

I feel that the writing is on the wall regarding the future of the Mac, and eventually I'll have to change platforms. I've been testing the waters with Windows 10 and Linux. I have a Dell XPS 9570 with Windows 10 Professional that I sometimes use. It's an excellent machine (I like it better than my work-issued 2018 MacBook Pro), and I really like Windows' Linux subsystem, but Windows 10 has its annoyances, most notably the ads and the mandatory updates. I also think Windows 10's interface looks gaudy with its oversized bars (especially the title bars), although Windows 10 doesn't look as bad on a 4K monitor. I also use the Linux Mint distribution on a ThinkPad T430 that I use for web browsing, traveling, and some light programming. I like the Cinnamon desktop, and I can generally find replacements for many of the macOS applications I use. However, I miss the fit-and-finish of macOS. I miss the consistency between applications found in macOS. I miss macOS's pervasive support for PDFs, and macOS's superior font rendering compared to Linux. I miss macOS's Dictionary.app, which I regularly use for both English and Japanese; so far I have not found anything like it on other platforms.

So, while I could sell my Macs and switch entirely to Windows 10 and Linux tomorrow and still remain productive, I will lose many of the positive aspects of the Mac that keep me on the platform. macOS is still the desktop that emphasizes fit-and-finish and consistency among applications, and I will lose this fit-and-finish and consistency when switching to other platforms.

Honestly, I think the time is ripe for another operating system, one that picks up where macOS has left off yet is not restricted to a specific vendor's hardware. Personally I believe the desktop operating system of the future will be one that draws from some ideas from the past that have never been fully realized. The high-level interface will be inspired by the Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines, preferably those from the classic Mac era (I admit, as much as I like Mac OS X, I believe that the classic Mac OS era was actually superior from a usability standpoint, even if its infrastructure wasn't solid). Application software should be built using components inspired by Apple's OpenDoc project. The system should be an object system inspired by Smalltalk or CLOS that enables pervasive programmability of the environment and supports an objects-all-the-way-down environment, and the operating system should provide a REPL for programmers. The difficult part will be how to make such an operating system happen, since building an operating system is a large effort, and I believe part of the reason why the desktop computing situation in 2019 is the way that it is has to do with market forces. Still, I'm dreaming of such an operating system being developed.

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up using Windows and after 20 years switched to Mac and could not believe I had waited for so long. What parts of Windows do you prefer over MacOS?

I use both Windows and Mac. I find Windows file management and window management to be much better. Love the preview you get when you hover over an app icon in the taskbar. Also love how windows don't automatically take up the entire screen. I like to have two windows open simultaneously. This is much smoother on Windows than Mac. I also prefer Windows' taskbar instead of Mac's dock. The negative is changing preferen…

3D Touch on a dock icon to open app expose.
Post reply on HN