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Marc Benioff: We Need a New Capitalism

nytimes.com

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Re: Marc Benioff: We Need a New Capitalism

#51

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

nrp wrote: post #41
executive wrote: post #20

In conclusion: buy my overpriced Salesforce products because I'm a good billionaire with a private jet.

Not to be excessively cynical, but the purpose of this opinion piece probably has more to do with: “Marc Benioff is the chairman and co-chief executive of Salesforce and the author, with Monica Langley, of the forthcoming book, “Trailblazer: The Power of Business as the Greatest Platform for Change.”

Not to be even more cynical, but I can't help wondering how the advance and royalties on that book are split between the co-authors vs time spent writing/editing.

Re: Marc Benioff: We Need a New Capitalism

#52

Post by remarkEon »

jadell wrote: post #40
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #8

> Legislation to close loopholes in the Equal Pay Act have stalled in Congress for years, and today women still only make about 80 cents, on average, for every dollar earned by men. But congressional inaction does not absolve companies from their responsibility. Since learning that we were paying women less than men for equal work at Salesforce, we have spent $10.3 million to ensure equal pay; today we conduct annual…

So why is average pay for women across all positions less than men? It's not like Salesforce employees are doing heavy manual labor that skews itself towards hiring more men. Why aren't women being hired in positions at the same rates as men (at which point we can then address the issue of pay inequality for the same position?) If this is an issue of "we're not hiring women to the same higher paid positions as men",…

You're supposing that women all want or aspire to the same types of positions that men do, which isn't true.

Re: Marc Benioff: We Need a New Capitalism

#53

Post by jonahx »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #39
weberc2 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvotes are fine with me; I don't put much stock in Internet points. I'm not trying to be persuasive in my single-sentence internet quip; if people care to learn more, they can do their own research.

You’re engaging in discussion and the downvotes aren’t disagreement here. They’re a sign your comment wasn’t contributing much of value.

> downvotes aren’t disagreement here

While this may be the official intention, in practice it is not the case. Afaict, disagreement elicits downvotes the majority of the time.

Re: Marc Benioff: We Need a New Capitalism

#54

Post by jimbokun »

jadell wrote: post #40
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #8

> Legislation to close loopholes in the Equal Pay Act have stalled in Congress for years, and today women still only make about 80 cents, on average, for every dollar earned by men. But congressional inaction does not absolve companies from their responsibility. Since learning that we were paying women less than men for equal work at Salesforce, we have spent $10.3 million to ensure equal pay; today we conduct annual…

So why is average pay for women across all positions less than men? It's not like Salesforce employees are doing heavy manual labor that skews itself towards hiring more men. Why aren't women being hired in positions at the same rates as men (at which point we can then address the issue of pay inequality for the same position?) If this is an issue of "we're not hiring women to the same higher paid positions as men",…

> If this is an issue of "we're not hiring women to the same higher paid positions as men", that is a problem separate from the problem of "we're not paying women equally to men in the same position."

Which is exactly the point. The solution may be much farther back in the pipeline, when young people are making educational choices, and can't be solved at the point companies are looking to hire someone.

Re: Marc Benioff: We Need a New Capitalism

#55

Post by Qworg »

croon wrote: post #3

> When government is unable or unwilling to act, business should not wait. I hope this is all based in good intentions, and have no real reason not to believe so, other than past experience. I just had this idea though: Seeing the current state of US regulatory capture; I wonder what would happen if companies that felt the way Marc Benioff claims he does (as well as the other companies in that roundtable) would just…

Well, some automakers are trying at least: https://www.gov.ca.gov/2019/07/25/california-and-major-autom...

Re: Marc Benioff: We Need a New Capitalism

#56

Post by mindfulplay »

kolbe wrote: post #22
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #8

> Legislation to close loopholes in the Equal Pay Act have stalled in Congress for years, and today women still only make about 80 cents, on average, for every dollar earned by men. But congressional inaction does not absolve companies from their responsibility. Since learning that we were paying women less than men for equal work at Salesforce, we have spent $10.3 million to ensure equal pay; today we conduct annual…

I don't think it's too unfair to read deeper into Marc's motives. Salesforce has never been interested in noble pursuits like making high quality products. They've been interested in creating moats to rent seek off of. They've been interested in promising functionality, then making it too hard for clients to leave once they find out its deficiencies. To that end, I'm sure Marc wants regulation because he knows that p…

I think given the amount of effort Benioff had put in, I do think he comes from the right place. But just don't have the same level of rigor and mental investment as say Gates.

Re: Marc Benioff: We Need a New Capitalism

#57

Post by collyw »

BigJ1211 wrote: post #43
kolbe wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many do overs does socialism get? You can only say "that's not how REAL socialism is supposed to happen" so many times.

Most socialistic societies fell due to outside interference in an already weaker society. (Weaker because of their starting position, not because of socialism). This was for example the case with Venezuela, to name a recent one. See: https://www.ozy.com/flashback/venezuelas-downfall-isnt-about... You'd need a country with an already strong economy to try socialism to see where it goes. We have western civilisations w…

That have a shitload of oil which I would have thought put them in a rather strong staring position.

Re: Marc Benioff: We Need a New Capitalism

#58

Post by linuxftw »

jadell wrote: post #40
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #8

> Legislation to close loopholes in the Equal Pay Act have stalled in Congress for years, and today women still only make about 80 cents, on average, for every dollar earned by men. But congressional inaction does not absolve companies from their responsibility. Since learning that we were paying women less than men for equal work at Salesforce, we have spent $10.3 million to ensure equal pay; today we conduct annual…

So why is average pay for women across all positions less than men? It's not like Salesforce employees are doing heavy manual labor that skews itself towards hiring more men. Why aren't women being hired in positions at the same rates as men (at which point we can then address the issue of pay inequality for the same position?) If this is an issue of "we're not hiring women to the same higher paid positions as men",…

> heavy manual labor that skews itself towards hiring more men

That's perpetuating a gender stereo type.

> "we're not hiring women to the same higher paid positions as men", that is a problem separate from the problem of "we're not paying women equally to men in the same position."

The former is a way to cover the latter. A woman might be employed in a role similar to a man, but the actual title of the position might be different, and thus different pay, even though their job function might be completely identical.

> Why aren't women being hired in positions at the same rates as men

Women face exclusion early in their careers (according to many women), so it's hard for them to have any level of experience. Most good paying jobs are mid to senior level, and those jobs are being filled by the endless supply of people that hold "Masters Degrees" from overseas.

Re: Marc Benioff: We Need a New Capitalism

#59

Post by jimbokun »

grenoire wrote: post #19
weberc2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you account for other factors, like flexibility and other benefits, you get within the margin of error--women may even out-earn men.

As a rule of thumb, if you would like to not get downvoted for controversial statements, please source your assumptions.

Transcript of a Freakonomics podcast discussing this issue:

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-true-story-of-the-gender...

Re: Marc Benioff: We Need a New Capitalism

#60

Post by jadell »

jimbokun wrote: post #54
jadell wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why is average pay for women across all positions less than men? It's not like Salesforce employees are doing heavy manual labor that skews itself towards hiring more men. Why aren't women being hired in positions at the same rates as men (at which point we can then address the issue of pay inequality for the same position?) If this is an issue of "we're not hiring women to the same higher paid positions as men",…

> If this is an issue of "we're not hiring women to the same higher paid positions as men", that is a problem separate from the problem of "we're not paying women equally to men in the same position." Which is exactly the point. The solution may be much farther back in the pipeline, when young people are making educational choices, and can't be solved at the point companies are looking to hire someone.

But it can be driven by those companies. Companies in the US have a huge influence on the educational pipeline, and in turn, who gets encouraged in that pipeline.
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