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Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

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Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#41

Post by cyborgx7 »

d3v wrote: post #32
cyborgx7 wrote: post #30

Off-topic: This is an article I would consider spending 1-3 dollars to read. But the only option for me is to subscribe. Therefore I won't be reading it and they won't get my money. I know that on demand paying for articles hasn't been made to work yet. But it still feels like there is a potential here that isn't being serviced.

There is a Dutch company called Blendle[0] that has figured this out pretty well locally, and also has a BETA program running in the United States[1]. Articles are often much cheaper than 1-3 dollars, I don't recall paying more than 1 eur. They also combat clickbait titles and intros by providing a refund when the article turns out lousy. [0]: https://blendle.com/ [1]: https://launch.blendle.com/

Just signed up for it. It looks good, but I am seeing a bunch of clickbait. Already had to use the refund feature once.

But the bigger problem is that I generally come to articles through social media or links from friends. Do I have to search for every article to see if they released it on Blendle? Also, a lot of them seem to change titles so that is actually pretty difficult.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#42

Post by saiya-jin »

coldtea wrote: post #35
sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

> I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Never mind those, they work in Germany, which as a country had its hand in 2 world wars, and directly exterminated 10+ million people, and was the home of Stasi, one of the fiercest surveillance agencies until 1989... That alone, and how totalitarianism can be…

Take a look at how many dubious Israeli companies are there in sphere of surveillance, remote hacking and other amoral activities.

History seems to be apparently a poor teacher once things happened 2+ generations away

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#43

Post by esotericn »

wolfgke wrote: post #8
sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

In Germany (where I live), the job market for software developers is not that you can arbitrarily choose for whom you want to work; you have to take the job that you can get (and I know quite some people (in Germany) who work in software development who would love to find a better job). So I personally believe that these people simply could not find a better job with less moral dilemmas.

Let me get this straight, the choice is between:

a) Take the one job you've been offered right now, in your location, doing evil things

b) You and your extended family starve and die

Sorry, I'm just not buying it. What actually happens is that people decide that it's convenient to ignore the moral issues for a bit more comfort; basically, they "don't care".

There does exist some vanishingly small fraction of people on the boundary of homelessness for which they literally have to do everything to survive. I don't believe that this is a large group in Germany and I doubt anyone intelligent and healthy enough to be a professional software developer is in that group.

If you want to maximize earnings, go for it. You're only lying to yourself if you pretend it's the only option, though.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#44

Post by jplayer01 »

sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

This is only tangential, but I'm a bit disappointed that there's no Glassdoor page for FinFisher. Would've been interesting to see some insight into the company from that direction. Like, is it a decent place to work? Decent benefits? Pay? Anything? I actually can't find any open positions being advertised anywhere either, so I wonder where they're hiring.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#45

Post by notlukesky »

sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

Is Germany an authoritarian regime when it tries to silence journalists and charge them with treason when they expose mass surveillance covering communications, Facebook and Twitter chats etc...??

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/10/treason_case_agains...

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#46

Post by luckylion »

saiya-jin wrote: post #42
coldtea wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Never mind those, they work in Germany, which as a country had its hand in 2 world wars, and directly exterminated 10+ million people, and was the home of Stasi, one of the fiercest surveillance agencies until 1989... That alone, and how totalitarianism can be…

Take a look at how many dubious Israeli companies are there in sphere of surveillance, remote hacking and other amoral activities. History seems to be apparently a poor teacher once things happened 2+ generations away

The StaSi wasn't 2+ generations away though, the SU (and with it the GDR) only collapsed in the late eighties.

I do believe that most people aren't appalled by what was done, they are appalled by what was it done for. "To secure the rule of the party" sounds bad. "To end human suffering" sounds much better, and we tend to have a thing for rationalizing why it's righteous (or at least necessary) to do it this time.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#47

Post by Bouncingsoul1 »

wolfgke wrote: post #8
sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

In Germany (where I live), the job market for software developers is not that you can arbitrarily choose for whom you want to work; you have to take the job that you can get (and I know quite some people (in Germany) who work in software development who would love to find a better job). So I personally believe that these people simply could not find a better job with less moral dilemmas.

I live also in Germany and I experience the opposite. SW Developera may choose and SW Companies have hire whom they can get. Well things may be different here in Southern Bavaria, as they always are ;)

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#49

Post by luckylion »

mschuster91 wrote: post #37
sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

Unfortunately not all of us programmers share the same foundation of moral principles, and not all of us programmers are anti-authoritarian left-wing anarchists. There are a fair number of "patriots" among us and no matter how much I dislike this kind of person they are the talent pool from which police, army and shady companies such as Finfisher draw their staff. For some, the money is also appealing - the shadier t…

It's also not that that tech is only used to oppress free speech, hunt down dissidents etc. I was tangentially involved in an investigation targeting a child pornography collector/trader and talked a bit with the lead investigator. Their department used a commercial trojan as well, though I don't know whether it was built by FinFisher. "Hey, want to help us take down people that rape children?" doesn't clash with moral principles for most people, I think.
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