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Everything Is Getting Louder

theatlantic.com

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Re: Everything Is Getting Louder

#291

Post by flukus »

abjKT26nO8 wrote: post #6

For me the trigger is TVs. I've been renting a flat in a poorer area for over a year now. The walls are a lot thinner than in other places. There are a lot of people today (mostly 50+ year-olds) who cannot fall to sleep without the TV on. My neighbor is one of them. And the thing with TVs is that the most irritating sound frequency they emit is the one that is barely audible when you're in the same room, but when you…

I wonder how much of the TV problem comes down to the plague of audio engineers creating tracks that you have to turn the volume up on to hear the quite parts? I always need to have my TV at a higher volume than necessary to deal with this. "Silicon Valley's empathy problem" has been a meme for a while now but with awful sound leveling and stuff like not seeing the battle of Winterfell because of how I "tuned my TV" it seems creators are increasingly out of touch with consumers.

And then there's the ads at a higher volume.

Re: Everything Is Getting Louder

#292

Post by lsc »

vonseel wrote: post #289
lsc wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for me, i personally find that the construction of the apartment matters a lot more than how noisy my neighbors are; I moved from a duplex in a very quiet neighborhood in sunnyvale to an apartment right under the SJC flight path, but the old place was last updated in the '60s and had single-pane windows, while the new place was built in the '80s and upgraded pretty significantly in the aughts. It is rare that I hear…

I agree but unfortunately in my experience the opposite is true in Texas - newer construction usually has thinner walls with less dampening between dwellings. Windows are usually fine though.

Huh. that's an interesting point I hadn't thought of; I always attributed the difference in quality to just, you know, the stricter housing code and better building tech in general... but that's not the only factor at work in Silicon Valley.

In Silicon Valley, sure, most of the housing stock was built rather a long time ago, yes, but it was also built to the expectations of people who didn't make a lot of money. The newer stuff around here is built for people who are in the top 5% or better of incomes, so it's likely they use more expensive construction techniques, too.

Re: Everything Is Getting Louder

#293

Post by matttproud »

dpark wrote: post #132
myroon5 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be perfect.. still unfortunate for renters stuck around less configurable appliance models

How is being a renter relevant? If the appliance has a beep that can be turned off, the renter can turn it off as easily as the owner. Just find the user manual for the appliance online.

Try living in a place (e.g., the U.S.) where being a renter carries the assumption[1] with being in the bottom-third economic bracket with the property owners thereby opting to provision units with the cheapest-available accoutrement and equipment (often the most poorly-designed).

Poor product design often entails poor user experience like environmental pollution of light and sound.

[1] --- Exclude high-income and nominal high-cost metropolises like New York or Bay Area.

Re: Everything Is Getting Louder

#294

Post by DocNoise »

blunte wrote: post #26

Many people either cannot hear very low frequency sound, and they cannot understand what it’s like for those of us who can. The sounds don’t necessarily get louder at night - there are just fewer competing sounds to mask them. Earplugs and other sound barriers make it worse by filtering out higher frequency sounds, making the remaining VLF sounds seem louder. VLFs also penetrate earth, stone, concrete, etc. And becau…

There is a difference between "being able to hear" very low frequencies and a situation where the inner ear has been sensitized - in many cases through a continuous LFN immission that's slightly below the average hearing threshold. If the exposure is constant, the dampening mechanism that is managing the adaption of the cochlea to sound of various intensities can "wear out" on a cellular level and the ear is basically reverting back to it's original (= super sensitive) state. The process of sensitization can also be accelerated/caused through the presence of ototoxic substances like certain organic solvents, desinfectants or antibiotics. Persons with this type of cochlear damage will experience a tiny low-frequency tonal peak in an otherwise "normal" sound spectrum as almost painfully loud, booming (spread out in frequency) and/or as a pressure on the ear. This damage will not show up in standard hearing tests, in fact, pure-tone audiometry will show above-average results. Currently, only DPOAE testing could in theory reveal this type of (rather common) cochlear damage in a non-invasive way. Even though not totally understood, there is epidemiological evidence that this type of aural sensitization is connected with (read: the cause of) disrupted sleep, higher cortisol levels and thus a heightened risk of infections, cardiovascular disease. The lack of sleep frequently leads to depression and anxiety disorders. ... more here: https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/30101/do-our-ear...

Re: Everything Is Getting Louder

#295

Post by DocNoise »

blunte wrote: post #26

Many people either cannot hear very low frequency sound, and they cannot understand what it’s like for those of us who can. The sounds don’t necessarily get louder at night - there are just fewer competing sounds to mask them. Earplugs and other sound barriers make it worse by filtering out higher frequency sounds, making the remaining VLF sounds seem louder. VLFs also penetrate earth, stone, concrete, etc. And becau…

Just realized that Stackexchange is currently showing only an abridged version of my blurb on the question of "adaption to LFN (low frequency noise)", so I paste the long version below. Links to literature can be found in my other post(s). I don't cover the involvement of the otolith organs (yet) but that's your connection of a low-frequency sound stimulus to the sensation of (whole body) vibration, dizziness, balance problems, blurred vision, changes in peripheral blood flow and breathing problems.

---

Very quickly and totally from the top of my head: Traffic noise is in many cases dominated by low frequencies, with the whole spectrum somewhat similar to a distorted 1/f function, with a few tonal peaks for exhaust noise and tyre/tread sounds. Now add the structure you are living in: "excellent sound insulation" in the EU is (still) dB(A)-focused, meaning architects and planners are aiming for a "wow" effect in noise reduction by eliminating that what's easy to eliminate - high and mid frequencies, ignoring mostly the low (and energy-rich) frequencies, which are incidentally the ones the A-weighing of noise is (historically) ignoring as well. As a result, you are basically living in what's known as a low-pass filter, one that is also "drawing" tonal peaks (resonances, room nodes) out of that low-frequency noise mixture. At first, your cochlea's short-term adaption mechanisms will do their job well and tone down signals that are not meaningful (MOC reflex). Over time however, the presence of low-level tonal, continuous sounds can damage ("wear out") a specific sensor type necessary for this reflex to work. As a result, even inaudible LFN noise can, over time, lead to a distal sensitization effect. In many cases the culprit is actually not the traffic noise itself, but HVAC installations like heat pumps, A/Cs and gas turbines. The effect of "I can hear too much" (being aware of noises) as a result of sub-threshold LFN-exposure is known in the medical literature as a symptom of VAD stage I / II and in fact quite common in the urban population. Certain medications (Gentamycine, cis-platines) as well as organic solvents (acetone) and some disinfectants can speed up this process, which is non-reversible and poses a risk factor for suffering atypical (early onset) hearing loss later on... The "I hear too much" effect has been quite a solid indicator of long-term, low-level IS/LFN noise pollution. To be on the safe side and to rule out a sub-threshold LFN-problem, you should an have an acoustician do a "LCeq-LAeq" (should not be more than 3-4dB) and an unweighted (FFT) spectrogram to see if there is a constant tonal peak below, say, 50Hz. Also, try to wear good earplugs like UVEX Whisper or UVEX Whisper Plus at night until you can rule out any constant / nocturnal IS/LFN immissions into your place.

Re: Everything Is Getting Louder

#296

Post by AnthonyMouse »

leetcrew wrote: post #242
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be possible to have a simple rule requiring noise not to cross into a neighbor's residential property, without having a dedicated organization of busybodies collecting dues and micromanaging everything with a constantly changing set of restrictions.

this is not very simple. sound doesn't just "stop" at a certain point; it dissipates until a specific sound can't be heard over the noise floor. the only realistic approach is to set a dB level that can't be exceeded for a sustained duration. this is how the law already works in most localities; it just isn't enforced unless you really nag the police.

You can litigate everything forever if you want to be sufficiently pedantic, but that's missing the point. It's not that you don't at some point have to make a decision about how loud is too loud. It's that you can have a noise ordinance without giving anyone the capacity to compel anyone else to use a specific landscaping company or style.

Re: Everything Is Getting Louder

#297

Post by AnthonyMouse »

tjalfi wrote: post #273
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be possible to have a simple rule requiring noise not to cross into a neighbor's residential property, without having a dedicated organization of busybodies collecting dues and micromanaging everything with a constantly changing set of restrictions.

It's easy to define a rule; the hard part is enforcing it. I've been on an HOA board for a couple of years. Here are some of the things I have learned. Some people (about 5%) are cranks. We have received legal threats because another owner parked in "their" unreserved parking space. Another owner disputed the cost of a roof repair: they had calculated the size of the roof over their condo and that's all they were wil…

The problem with an HOA isn't that none of them can ever be caught in a state of not being literally on fire. It's that they generally have the power to do things that will mess up your life even though they shouldn't have that power to begin with, and one can turn from benign to malicious in a short period of time without an individual homeowner being able to stop it.

If the federal government is too big to be effective, an HOA is too small to be effective. They generally don't have the resources to make decisions carefully or fairly -- or if they do it's because you spent the time yourself and then the problem is they're consuming your life. But the decisions they make are nonetheless consequential to the people subject to them, so they can easily make your life hell by forcing you to choose between stupid nonsense and spending many hours of your life fighting to prevent stupid nonsense.

Re: Everything Is Getting Louder

#298

Post by scandinavegan »

germinalphrase wrote: post #266
johnchristopher wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the paralysis but I once read an internet fact that stated our brains are innately wired to react to babies and children's screams in order to ward off potential threats to our retirement plans.

I believe it. I work in an environment that many people would consider stress inducing; I engage in amateur combat sports; however, when my six month old loses it, I absolutely get an immediate pulse raising stress reaction.

I've read articles that say that when they stress-test fighter pilots by having them do cognitive test while wearing headphones with different sounds, they usually mix in infants crying. It's one of the most distracting things for a person to hear.

For me, it wasn't when the kids started crying that was the most stressful, but when they wouldn't stop. You check their diapers, you check if they're hungry, you rock them gently, and even then sometimes they just wouldn't stop crying. After a while the noise would be so bad that I had to hand them off to my wife, and she did the same when she became too frustrated.

Funnily enough, it made me immune to other kids crying. Before I had kids I would get very irritated at noisy kids or crying infants in the subway. Now, I'm just happy it's not my kids and that it's someone else's problem!

Re: Everything Is Getting Louder

#299

Post by loco5niner »

jfnixon wrote: post #79
Ao7bei3s wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing wonderful about them when you live half a km/mi from them and they go off at 9AM, don't stop for 10-15 minutes and you really wanted to sleep.

I'm sure they put them up after you moved to that location, correct?

Honestly, It's hard to fault someone for failing to notice something that happens irregularly like that. Unless you're willing to camp out in the front yard of a prospective home 24x7 for a week, you're likely to miss this.

The onus is on the noisemaker to make less noise, not everyone else to avoid the area. If they didn't move there, someone else with less money would have.

Re: Everything Is Getting Louder

#300

Post by specialist »

blunte wrote: post #279
specialist wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TLDR: Please have your hearing thoroughly tested. I have no idea if this anecdote relates to your experience: My SO was hearing a rhythmic noise. More so at night. Very disturbing. Much drama. An audiologist (?) determined some of the tiny hairs inside one of the ears were flopping around. The supporting membrane got slack with age. A form of tinnitus. These tiny hairs are sensitive to motion, so even heartbeats and…

Were there it not that my perception of the sound was highly dependent upon my location (even within one room), I might be inclined to believe it was my problem. If you’ve ever played with a good subwoofer, you know that where you stand relative to the speaker and the frequency it is generating greatly impacts your ability to hear it. You can be in a dead zone and hear almost nothing, but a few steps back or forward…

Of course environment & context effects hearing. Ears perceive changing air pressure as sound. The body feels other frequencies (whatever that's called).

FWIW, my SO's perceptions varied with location as well.

At the very least, an audiologist (?) would help you rule out factors. Or in our case, becoming more aware of the current best available science.

Think of it as a physical. I certainly wish I had my hearing periodically thoroughly assessed. Like I already do for my pulmonary function, eyesight, BMI, etc.

Also FWIW, even though my SO's condition is untreatable, awareness helped her better manage it.

I hope you find some relief. Keep looking. Someone, somewhere has the answers you need.

Best wishes.

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