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Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

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Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#11

Post by qznc »

endymi0n wrote: post #9
wolfgke wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany (where I live), the job market for software developers is not that you can arbitrarily choose for whom you want to work; you have to take the job that you can get (and I know quite some people (in Germany) who work in software development who would love to find a better job). So I personally believe that these people simply could not find a better job with less moral dilemmas.

I‘m sceptical. 20 recruiters on my LinkedIn profile per month would disagree. I‘ve turned in my notice more than once in Germany and literally had a job offer a day later.

It depends on where you live and if you are willing to move.

However, FinFisher seems to be located in Munich and it is easy to find a software developer job in Munich.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#12

Post by pablooliva »

qznc wrote: post #11
endymi0n wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I‘m sceptical. 20 recruiters on my LinkedIn profile per month would disagree. I‘ve turned in my notice more than once in Germany and literally had a job offer a day later.

It depends on where you live and if you are willing to move. However, FinFisher seems to be located in Munich and it is easy to find a software developer job in Munich.

Agreed. Finding work in Munich or Stuttgart is easy as a software dev. I would imagine the case is the same for most major cities in the country.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#13

Post by fjoetna »

wolfgke wrote: post #8
sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

In Germany (where I live), the job market for software developers is not that you can arbitrarily choose for whom you want to work; you have to take the job that you can get (and I know quite some people (in Germany) who work in software development who would love to find a better job). So I personally believe that these people simply could not find a better job with less moral dilemmas.

>you have to take the job that you can get

I live in Germany too, and my experience is quiet contrary to yours. Of course you won't always work for a company that "saves the planet", but surely people care about good morals when looking for a job, and some companies even adjust to that. A lot of my former and current colleagues quit jobs just because the companies they were working for were always prioritizing profit over morals, or they declined well paid jobs because they just didn't like the companies general business strategy.

Don't get me wrong though: of course you can't be super picky and always get a dream, green, social improvement focused job. That's not how it works.

Still: I would never want to work for a company that provides surveillance services for shady regimes.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#14

Post by [deleted] »

wolfgke wrote: post #8
sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

In Germany (where I live), the job market for software developers is not that you can arbitrarily choose for whom you want to work; you have to take the job that you can get (and I know quite some people (in Germany) who work in software development who would love to find a better job). So I personally believe that these people simply could not find a better job with less moral dilemmas.

[deleted]

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#15

Post by pimmen »

sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

I just don't think they care, and they're under the assumption nobody else cares too.

I work for a news publisher in Sweden, and when we got acquired by a larger one the CTO of that company held a huge speech about why working for a news companty was so much more rewarding than working for Spotify. You get to make sure democracy functions, keeping the power in check. Sure, we can't pay you as much as Spotify, and it will not look as good on your cv, but at least you can go home and get a good night's rest knowing you did good. After the speech, minutes later, it was announced to us that this would probably be last time we saw him since he was going to start working for an online gambling business. Kind of took the air out of that whole spiel.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#16

Post by BjoernKW »

wolfgke wrote: post #8
sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

In Germany (where I live), the job market for software developers is not that you can arbitrarily choose for whom you want to work; you have to take the job that you can get (and I know quite some people (in Germany) who work in software development who would love to find a better job). So I personally believe that these people simply could not find a better job with less moral dilemmas.

It might not be Silicon Valley but the German market for software development services is very much a seller's market, too.

In general, software developers have no problem at all with finding a job (or clients as a freelancer).

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#17

Post by sgift »

sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

How do people justify working for any controversial company or authority? If there's one thing humans are good at it's rationalizing bad behavior as good or at least acceptable behavior.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#18

Post by sudoaza »

wolfgke wrote: post #8
sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

In Germany (where I live), the job market for software developers is not that you can arbitrarily choose for whom you want to work; you have to take the job that you can get (and I know quite some people (in Germany) who work in software development who would love to find a better job). So I personally believe that these people simply could not find a better job with less moral dilemmas.

What?? There's lots of job for developers in Berlin, I've been interviewing these last few months and got offers from at least 15 companies

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#19

Post by jacobush »

pimmen wrote: post #15
sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

I just don't think they care, and they're under the assumption nobody else cares too. I work for a news publisher in Sweden, and when we got acquired by a larger one the CTO of that company held a huge speech about why working for a news companty was so much more rewarding than working for Spotify. You get to make sure democracy functions, keeping the power in check. Sure, we can't pay you as much as Spotify, and it…

That's sort of hilarious! Makes you wonder, who wrote it, did he laugh at you poor sods on the inside for maybe having "morals" and other inferior things ripe for exploiting with "free" people like him. Or whatever else went on inside that head. If anything in particular.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#20

Post by sveme »

wolfgke wrote: post #8
sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

In Germany (where I live), the job market for software developers is not that you can arbitrarily choose for whom you want to work; you have to take the job that you can get (and I know quite some people (in Germany) who work in software development who would love to find a better job). So I personally believe that these people simply could not find a better job with less moral dilemmas.

I live in the city of FinFisher (Munich), there's a LinkedIn or Xing recruiter call coming through thrice a week. Your statement might be true in Eisenhüttenstadt, but definitely not in the city where they are located.
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