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Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

nytimes.com

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Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#131

Post by linkregister »

neilv wrote: post #129
thebradbain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of an outright ban, I'd love to see price-prohibitive congestion pricing and street-parking pricing (prohibitive in the sense that it wouldn't make financial sense to drive a car as the primary mode of transport, not that if someone needed to occasionally use a car they couldn't) within Manhattan, with the aforementioned provisions carved out for those who demonstrate a need for a car. That way, for any of th…

> price-prohibitive congestion pricing and street-parking pricing [...] That way, for any of those stubborn and wealthy enough who refuse to use public transit, we can direct all funds generated to improving public transit* That seems to hand the shared public resource to the wealthy. (Regardless of whether you envision the revenue being used to someday provide a comparably attractive option for the non-wealthy.)

Regardless of whether wealthy folks' cars are allowed on the road, streets need to exist in order to deliver goods, run buses, and carry disabled passengers to their destinations.

Congestion exemptions for disabled transporters and other social goods can be enacted to eliminate the regressive risk of congestion pricing.

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#132

Post by ggm »

anonu wrote: post #122
Tiktaalik wrote: post #94

The tech industry is floating all these complex technological ideas so solve traffic congestion, from apps that track traffic, to ride hailing to autonomous cars, but the reality is that traffic congestion is not a tech problem but rather a simple physics problem (and political problem). The core issue is simply that cars physically take up too much space on the road, and move too few passengers. This simple physics…

The work of Robert Moses is slowly getting undone. He left a major imprint on NYC, building infrastructure to support the automobile. For Moses, the car was the great middle class equalizer. The result is NYC has 2 highways going up and down it's waterfront when it could have focused on integrating it's city on the rivers as opposed to using them to funnel cars into Manhattan.

I sometimes visit a Brisbane development forum which cannot fathom my suggestions to adopt "the big dig" with our city riverfront freeway. They all see this as a waste of time, and I still see this as returning 100+ year value to something precious: waterfront is too valuable to waste on cars.

The ground is amenable to tunnels. We should be getting rid of the flyovers.

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#133

Post by pkulak »

neilv wrote: post #129
thebradbain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of an outright ban, I'd love to see price-prohibitive congestion pricing and street-parking pricing (prohibitive in the sense that it wouldn't make financial sense to drive a car as the primary mode of transport, not that if someone needed to occasionally use a car they couldn't) within Manhattan, with the aforementioned provisions carved out for those who demonstrate a need for a car. That way, for any of th…

> price-prohibitive congestion pricing and street-parking pricing [...] That way, for any of those stubborn and wealthy enough who refuse to use public transit, we can direct all funds generated to improving public transit* That seems to hand the shared public resource to the wealthy. (Regardless of whether you envision the revenue being used to someday provide a comparably attractive option for the non-wealthy.)

Is it really "handing" if it's market priced?

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#134

Post by jcranmer »

kunai wrote: post #117
cryptonector wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York wasn't.

Until Robert Moses came along, after which every borough outside of Manhattan got royally screwed with noisy and polluting elevated freeways, demolishing thousands of housing units in the BX and black and brown neighborhoods in Brooklyn and Queens. Things change over time. It's never too late to reverse that painful legacy, and this 14th St. project is but the first step.

Pedantically speaking, many of the freeways are actually at-grade or sunken: e.g., Cross-Bronx, Grand Central, Major Deegan. Still had massive deleterious effects on their neighborhoods, though.

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#135

Post by quietthrow »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #94

The tech industry is floating all these complex technological ideas so solve traffic congestion, from apps that track traffic, to ride hailing to autonomous cars, but the reality is that traffic congestion is not a tech problem but rather a simple physics problem (and political problem). The core issue is simply that cars physically take up too much space on the road, and move too few passengers. This simple physics…

Essentially what you are saying is have really really good public transportation and the traffics problem can be solved.

Can any HNers from Japan or Singapore chime in here. Is traffic congestion common in your country’big cities given you have some of the worlds best public transportation infrastructure?

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#136

Post by adrianN »

quietthrow wrote: post #135
Tiktaalik wrote: post #94

The tech industry is floating all these complex technological ideas so solve traffic congestion, from apps that track traffic, to ride hailing to autonomous cars, but the reality is that traffic congestion is not a tech problem but rather a simple physics problem (and political problem). The core issue is simply that cars physically take up too much space on the road, and move too few passengers. This simple physics…

Essentially what you are saying is have really really good public transportation and the traffics problem can be solved. Can any HNers from Japan or Singapore chime in here. Is traffic congestion common in your country’big cities given you have some of the worlds best public transportation infrastructure?

Congestion is roughly constant in all cities because people's willingness to tolerate it is roughly constant. Build more roads and people drive more, but more public transport and more people can get to where they want to be with less resource use.

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#137

Post by woutr_be »

chrismcb wrote: post #47

I wish they works ban cars on the Las Vegas strip. It would require rerouting hotel entrances. But the amount of real estate it would free up would be incredible.

Out of interest, how much real estate would it actually free up? I assume you still need roads for emergency services, delivery trucks, construction vehicles, etc... Maybe the number of lanes can be reduced, but that wouldn't exactly free up any sizeable amount of real estate that could be used for more housing, or would it?

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#138

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

electric_muse wrote: post #19
omosubi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because cars have a lot of externalities that negatively affect cities? Pollution, noise, increase in collisions, space required to house and fuel them to name a few. I, and many other people, prefer areas of cities where cars aren't dominant and would like to see more of it

But I’m not sure this is a widely held preference. Seems to be a vocal minority trying to impose their will on others.

Pretty sure cars are the vocal minority imposing their externalities on everyone who doesn’t drive. In New York that’s most people.

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#139

Post by adrianN »

adrr wrote: post #24
rememberlenny wrote: post #2

This is one of the more exciting things that has happened to traffic in NYC. Getting rid of cars in a city isn't possible, but being able to make this change to one street at a time seems feasible. I live a block away from this area, and it's completely transformed the neighborhood. It's much safer to walk across 14th st. There are many shops in the area that seem to be getting more foot traffic (no data behind this)…

This is a better strategy than trying to put bike lanes on every street. Drivers don't pay attention enough. Risk of getting doored or having some car turn right without checking their blindspot/mirrors is too high.

Dooring and people having to check their blind spots is a sign of bad bike lanes.

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#140

Post by msla »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #3

As far as I'm concerned, cars have no place in Manhattan, and should be banned from all but a handful of designated roads. Maybe give out special licenses to the disabled, or anyone else who physically requires a car—that way, they'll actually be able to get around at reasonable speeds, too.

The problem isn't so much people who require a car to get around as people who can't get around and therefore rely on deliveries. It isn't really feasible to supply them with any reasonable amount of groceries and other stuff by bike or bus.

And I'm assuming, possibly over-optimistically, that "no cars" doesn't include ambulances and police cars and fire trucks and so on.

And I'm also assuming, almost definitely over-optimistically, that people who have jobs where they may get called in for emergencies at all hours of the day or night will get ultra-special Manhattan driving licenses. After all, medical people don't live at the hospital when they're on call, and they're not going to.

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