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SEC blocks the Telegram ICO – what this means, and what happens now

davidgerard.co.uk

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Re: SEC blocks the Telegram ICO – what this means, and what happens now

#51

Post by teslaberry »

i was there when telegram presales were happening in backchannel investors trying to flip tokens on one another.

if you don't know you're the sucker, then you're a fish that got stuck with tokens.

the sec isn't protecting older investors, cause they will never get their money back.

tokens of all sorts remain a method to scam people out of btc, which only even works because btc itself is a rising bubble.

imagine an economy based on trading facebook shares. but imagine if facebook shares didn't rebound from 19 but went to 50 cents.

well, right now the entire cryptocurrency economy is still banking on bitcoin NOT going back to 1000 dollars. good luck on that one.

if bitcoin doesn't go to 100,000 dollars, no one who invested in telegram will ever make a profit if they are still waiting to exit like the sucker that they are.

Re: SEC blocks the Telegram ICO – what this means, and what happens now

#52

Post by shakna »

jorvi wrote: post #30
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how it generally works. If you're subject to a court's jurisdiction, and the court orders you not to do something, you can't dodge the order by just doing it in some place where the court doesn't have jurisdiction.

But that is not how it generally works. If Unilever gets told by a UK court they can't sell peanut butter because that court doesn't like peanut butter, it doesn't mean Unilever is suddenly forbidden from selling peanut butter in the USA. Edit: to clear up the analogy - UK courts don't have a say over what Unilever can and can't sell in USA jurisdiction. Likewise, the SEC can (should?) only regulate trade within USA…

> Edit: to clear up the analogy - UK courts don't have a say over what Unilever can and can't sell in USA jurisdiction.

And the SEC is dealing with what is being sold in the US.

> committed to flood the U.S. capital markets with billions of Grams by October 31, 2019

> sold more than 1 billion Grams to 39 U.S. Purchasers, raising $424.5 million from the U.S. market

Re: SEC blocks the Telegram ICO – what this means, and what happens now

#53

Post by austhrow743 »

schmichael wrote: post #25

With each new cryptocurrency drama due to flouting AML/KYC regulations, flouting securities regulations, collapsing/exit-scamming exchanges, murders, drugs, sex trafficking, let's not forget: PoW is an ecologically irresponsible algorithm.[1] Altogether cryptocurrency is such a terrifyingly irresponsible ecosystem, I'm surprised anyone wants to be involved in it. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/…

Isn't all that the stuff that makes crypto exciting? Its the wild west come again. A new frontier. Appeals to the desire to expose oneself to risks for profit. To do something that maybe you shouldn't. To operate outside of the soft, protected existence of mainstream first world society. Bowl without the bumper bars.

Absent that emotional fulfilment its just boring old money.

Re: SEC blocks the Telegram ICO – what this means, and what happens now

#54

Post by throw_m239339 »

bagholder-alert wrote: post #12
mikece wrote: post #5

So it's not that the blockchain or exchange systems where insecure, only that tokens available at the ICO were being sold below par to investors? Setting aside the giant red flag that is refusing to accept a subpoena, if the ICO tokens are revalued to take away the discount to early investors would it then be legal?

You imply that Telegrams “Gram” has any buyers other than the early bagholders.

Is it the same stunt as Bitfinex and LEO backed by USDT "backed" by dollars? How is the lawsuit working for NY attorney General by the way? These guy just feel untouchable… it's unbelievable what they can get away with…

Re: SEC blocks the Telegram ICO – what this means, and what happens now

#55

Post by throw_m239339 »

jorvi wrote: post #6

> The Telegram Open Network is probably dead. The emergency order stops Telegram from “delivering Grams to any persons, or taking any other steps to effect any unregistered offer or sale of Grams.” This is worldwide — not just for the US. This completely blows my mind. How does the SEC have any power in telling a hypothetical European situated in Europe if they can or can't buy Gram from European sellers..?

As soon as you are doing business with American citizens, the SEC can and will get involved so I imagine Telegram sold Grams to americans.

Re: SEC blocks the Telegram ICO – what this means, and what happens now

#56

Post by throw_m239339 »

snagglegaggle wrote: post #4
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #3

> Telegram refused to accept a subpoena Within the sea of stupid that was this endeavour—single-issuer token pretending not to be a security, the wholesale scam that are SAFTs—this really takes the cake.

I think that's arguable. You're completely within your rights to refuse an unlawful order from a police officer. That it usually would lead to you getting shot reflects poorly on our society, not on the judgement of the person refusing the unlawful order.

How is that subpoena "unlawful"?

Re: SEC blocks the Telegram ICO – what this means, and what happens now

#57

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

schmichael wrote: post #25

With each new cryptocurrency drama due to flouting AML/KYC regulations, flouting securities regulations, collapsing/exit-scamming exchanges, murders, drugs, sex trafficking, let's not forget: PoW is an ecologically irresponsible algorithm.[1] Altogether cryptocurrency is such a terrifyingly irresponsible ecosystem, I'm surprised anyone wants to be involved in it. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/…

Besides proof-of-work and proof-of-stake, I’m surprised the more ecologically-friendly proof-of-space system isn’t being looked at harder. FileCoin uses it (it’s integral to the system to prove you have the space you’re selling) but it could also be used by other distributed Blockchains to prove that a node’s operator has invested in the ecosystem (by buying lots of storage) - I’d say I’d prefer to run out of HDD supply than destroy the earth through fossil-fuel power plant emissions.

Re: SEC blocks the Telegram ICO – what this means, and what happens now

#58

Post by schmichael »

austhrow743 wrote: post #53
schmichael wrote: post #25

With each new cryptocurrency drama due to flouting AML/KYC regulations, flouting securities regulations, collapsing/exit-scamming exchanges, murders, drugs, sex trafficking, let's not forget: PoW is an ecologically irresponsible algorithm.[1] Altogether cryptocurrency is such a terrifyingly irresponsible ecosystem, I'm surprised anyone wants to be involved in it. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/…

Isn't all that the stuff that makes crypto exciting? Its the wild west come again. A new frontier. Appeals to the desire to expose oneself to risks for profit. To do something that maybe you shouldn't. To operate outside of the soft, protected existence of mainstream first world society. Bowl without the bumper bars. Absent that emotional fulfilment its just boring old money.

I know "wild west" is a popular analogy, but I fear people may forget it was awful.

Native peoples were slaughtered and forced off their land. Natural resources were mined and hunted with no regard for long-term sustainability. There was slave labor, sex trafficking, and endless profiteering based on speculation or downright lies. The rich got richer and maybe some poor people got a leg up? A whole lot of people ended up poorer, sicker, or dead.

So yeah, maybe cryptocurrencies are a bit like the wild west.

There are ways of taking risks, exploring, and pushing boundaries that don't put vulnerable people at greater risk. As far as I can tell the wild west and cryptocurrencies aren't it.

Re: SEC blocks the Telegram ICO – what this means, and what happens now

#59

Post by schmichael »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #57
schmichael wrote: post #25

With each new cryptocurrency drama due to flouting AML/KYC regulations, flouting securities regulations, collapsing/exit-scamming exchanges, murders, drugs, sex trafficking, let's not forget: PoW is an ecologically irresponsible algorithm.[1] Altogether cryptocurrency is such a terrifyingly irresponsible ecosystem, I'm surprised anyone wants to be involved in it. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/…

Besides proof-of-work and proof-of-stake, I’m surprised the more ecologically-friendly proof-of-space system isn’t being looked at harder. FileCoin uses it (it’s integral to the system to prove you have the space you’re selling) but it could also be used by other distributed Blockchains to prove that a node’s operator has invested in the ecosystem (by buying lots of storage) - I’d say I’d prefer to run out of HDD sup…

Does Proof of Space work? I seem to remember there being fundamental issues FileCoin hadn't resolved, but I probably last looked into it months or years ago.

Maybe this? https://github.com/filecoin-project/research/blob/master/ope...

I don't have the time/desire right now to figure out how the project is doing and the soundness of the approach.

Re: SEC blocks the Telegram ICO – what this means, and what happens now

#60

Post by avhwl »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #57
schmichael wrote: post #25

With each new cryptocurrency drama due to flouting AML/KYC regulations, flouting securities regulations, collapsing/exit-scamming exchanges, murders, drugs, sex trafficking, let's not forget: PoW is an ecologically irresponsible algorithm.[1] Altogether cryptocurrency is such a terrifyingly irresponsible ecosystem, I'm surprised anyone wants to be involved in it. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/…

Besides proof-of-work and proof-of-stake, I’m surprised the more ecologically-friendly proof-of-space system isn’t being looked at harder. FileCoin uses it (it’s integral to the system to prove you have the space you’re selling) but it could also be used by other distributed Blockchains to prove that a node’s operator has invested in the ecosystem (by buying lots of storage) - I’d say I’d prefer to run out of HDD sup…

Proof-of-Capacity schemes would incur ecological cost as well, replacing a constantly escalating energy demand for a constantly escalating rare-earth metal demand.
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