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Flash Is Responsible for the Internet's Most Creative Era

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Re: Flash Is Responsible for the Internet's Most Creative Era

#221

In my personal opinion, Flash was ruined by Adobe when they tried to 'fix' it (improve it?) with ActionScript 3, which followed the ECMA script standard. AS3 changed everything about how flash worked, and if you weren't a software engineer, the learning curve was steep. I actually went and took some basic programming classes (literally in visual basic lol) and learned how to write proper code. Not a bad thing, but on…

This one got me in the feels man. Same.

Re: Flash Is Responsible for the Internet's Most Creative Era

#222
I started playing with FutureSplash when it first came out and loved it. It was so easy to use and just a lot of fun.

I was pretty heartbroken when Macromedia acquired it because I knew they'd muck it up. It was hardly anytime at all before they added huge amounts of complexity, and bugs with it, and jacked the price up to a painful point.

I never did buy anything from MacroMedia and I quit buying Adobe software around ten years ago. I don't miss them a bit, but I do still miss FutureSplash.

Re: Flash Is Responsible for the Internet's Most Creative Era

#223
post #187
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just young people. As in other creative arts, if the tooling is over-complex or high-friction it can simply kill the creative flow. We should aim to make things pleasant to use for experts as well as beginners. There is a great deal of philosophical resistance to this idea hiding just under the surface, driven perhaps by a sense that difficult interfaces are a test of worthiness. Consider the barrier to entry to…

I don't think it's gatekeeping. I think it's because experts need different tools to beginners, and have louder voices when a tool doesn't meet their needs. Consider Ruby on Rails. It was the most beginner-friendly way to create a web app when it was popular, but the very things that made it that way - opinionated design, sacrificing speed/correctness/scale by using Ruby, "batteries included", and a cultish fanbase t…

I agree with much of what you say, but I disagree that RoR was "beginner friendly". It had/has a steep learning curve.

From personal experience, and from the (continuing) weekly HN "Hiring" posts that are looking for Rails devs, Rails is popular because it allows you to build an MVP for an entire product or company over a week. It gets rid of all the distractions when it comes to assembling the perfect stack and just works. It's not perfect by far, but, like Flash, it allows you to shortcut the technical work and get right to the creative work.

Re: Flash Is Responsible for the Internet's Most Creative Era

#224

In my personal opinion, Flash was ruined by Adobe when they tried to 'fix' it (improve it?) with ActionScript 3, which followed the ECMA script standard. AS3 changed everything about how flash worked, and if you weren't a software engineer, the learning curve was steep. I actually went and took some basic programming classes (literally in visual basic lol) and learned how to write proper code. Not a bad thing, but on…

I actually quite liked the changes in AS3, and it being more programatic, I think it paved the way for what I do now.

After AS3, I remember switching to Flex, and basically using it like any current language. Although I absolutely hated the MXML syntax. I was pretty sad at the time, since AS3 was my main language, but looking back at it now, I think it was for the better.

Re: Flash Is Responsible for the Internet's Most Creative Era

#225
post #133
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see something with a Flash-like UI. I'm not sure if there is a place for it in the middle-school market anymore, though. I'll explain why: I think an interesting part of my experience was that it started with watching. I just loved the videos and thought they were hilarious. I admired the people who made those videos and I wanted to join that circle of creators. And Flash didn't prevent me from doing…

I think the place of animations might also been taken by video now. Back then, there were no ubiquitous video cameras and apps around them. Now, everyone can start making and sharing video clips with overlays/music/...

Totally agree. The creativity is still there, it just shifted to the latest medium that's easily available. Nobody could make cheap quick videos back before iphones and certainly couldn't view them easily on the web until YouTube came along.

And on that point it seems that Flash helped to kill itself by accelerating ubiquitous web video.

Re: Flash Is Responsible for the Internet's Most Creative Era

#226
Flash was a perfect example of "this is why we can't have nice things". As a platform for web mini-games or self-contained interactive animations, it remains unparalleled.

As a tool for building whole websites meant to convey information, it was always shit. If lazy web developers hadn't collectively abused flash to make annoying websites and dumb ads, perhaps we could still have fun flash games on the web today.

Re: Flash Is Responsible for the Internet's Most Creative Era

#227

Flash was a perfect example of "this is why we can't have nice things". As a platform for web mini-games or self-contained interactive animations, it remains unparalleled. As a tool for building whole websites meant to convey information, it was always shit. If lazy web developers hadn't collectively abused flash to make annoying websites and dumb ads, perhaps we could still have fun flash games on the web today.

It was not discontinued because people were making annoying websites with it, it was discontinued because it was a nightmare for security.

Re: Flash Is Responsible for the Internet's Most Creative Era

#228
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Flash died because of Apple Hehe. Not really. Jobs may have put one nail in the coffin, but Adobe killed flash. And flash was already dying because of abusive ads and HTML5 before Apple said anything. Here’s one of the Flash developers backing that up: https://m.slashdot.org/story/324267

Can confirm. I was doing flash game development when flash "died." One of the guys I worked with created the Flex compiler. He told me Adobe had a seriously bad combination of brain drain and code ossification. The motto on the flash team was "don't break the internet." For years, they were terrified of making any changes, especially ones that might break backward compatibility. This lack of ability to change anythin…

> For years, they were terrified of making any changes, especially ones that might break backward compatibility. This lack of ability to change anything meant their brightest never stuck around very long. This only made those who were left even more terrified to make any changes because the institutional knowledge was gone. It's a vicious cycle.

That's an interesting comment. I actually wonder whether this eventually happens for any successful product. At the end this gives competitors a chance to surpass the product. So it's definitely a cycle.

Re: Flash Is Responsible for the Internet's Most Creative Era

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of all of the areas where there is legitimate gatekeeping, like with the AMA and residency limits, software is one of the worst examples you could have picked. Software is one of those spaces where there is an incredible amount of capital invested in making things easy for the lowest common denominator. There are so many resources for people of any age and background to learn practical skills in this field. There are…

Not exactly. Such camps certainly exist, but they're not for everyone. I was tinkering with Linux at 7, but only because I had a technical parent who put it on the family computer. I'd say the important part here was that I wasn't given a coding bootcamp course to go through, I just got to play. Eventually, I figured out how to use single-user to re-set the root password and play as much supertux as I wanted. This pr…

I had similar experiences to you and definitely fit into the yak-shaving variety (or at least I did before work destroyed my soul).

There's no question to me that early exposure and encouragement makes all the difference in educating kids. I can't understand why we're not engineering experiences in all these different fields for kids to build real stuff that can eventually turn into a trade. If you're a kid, even today, and you want to learn an adult trade young, your options are still pretty much just artist or programmer.

If there was a way to start doctors or lawyers young, maybe it'd make a difference. As a kid, I knew one girl that was a hospital volunteer, and she ended up going to Africa as an adult to try and make the world a better place by helping others. People don't realize how activities in formative years really stick with kids.

Instead of giving kids meaningful work, we're raising a generation that's going to be great at self-promotion and fortnite.

Re: Flash Is Responsible for the Internet's Most Creative Era

#230
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just young people. As in other creative arts, if the tooling is over-complex or high-friction it can simply kill the creative flow. We should aim to make things pleasant to use for experts as well as beginners. There is a great deal of philosophical resistance to this idea hiding just under the surface, driven perhaps by a sense that difficult interfaces are a test of worthiness. Consider the barrier to entry to…

Of all of the areas where there is legitimate gatekeeping, like with the AMA and residency limits, software is one of the worst examples you could have picked. Software is one of those spaces where there is an incredible amount of capital invested in making things easy for the lowest common denominator. There are so many resources for people of any age and background to learn practical skills in this field. There are…

But Flash died :(
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