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Computer Files Are Going Extinct

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Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a very similar anecdote. I had a long conversation with a friend who is a high school science teacher. She told me that computer literacy has plummeted in the last ten years. She has her students go into the field and collect data in the form of photos, spreadsheets, and typed reports. She wants students to bundle these files in zip files, and email them to her. Students have no idea how to do this. Some of th…

I'm curious if this is actually computer literacy plummeting or if it's a wider population of students being expected to understand computers. When I was in high school the vast majority of my peers understood how to bundle up a bunch of photos, documents, etc. into a zip file and e-mail them. This is because my peers were nerds, and we were excited about this new computer technology and eager to learn everything we…

I am in my early twenties and I would expect none of my peers during high school would have difficulty zipping up some files.

Perhaps I am just in that brief period of time where more people than just the nerds knew the basics of the filesystem.

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if this is actually computer literacy plummeting or if it's a wider population of students being expected to understand computers. When I was in high school the vast majority of my peers understood how to bundle up a bunch of photos, documents, etc. into a zip file and e-mail them. This is because my peers were nerds, and we were excited about this new computer technology and eager to learn everything we…

I am in my early twenties and I would expect none of my peers during high school would have difficulty zipping up some files. Perhaps I am just in that brief period of time where more people than just the nerds knew the basics of the filesystem.

few years older, same. But yes, I think that time were nearly everyone was a PC user was only a few years. (and I suspect it depends on country when exactly that was)

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#303
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, precisely, makes it inferior?

Speaking of precision. I think a big problem with modern use of English is that it has reduced precision. What reduces precision? 1. Increased reliance on idioms to communicate. Idioms use analogies, and usually reduce precision. Our increasingly shared cultural context via the Internet means that more and more idioms are entering common use and (IMO) reducing the clarity of communication. 2. Reduced general vocabula…

Claims like this have been made from older generations to the younger and about every language since recording began. They were once made in Latin about a degenerate bastardization that eventually became French. Naturally, the French have in turn become rather protective.

Speakers are entitled to "abuse" their language if they want to. It is theirs.

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be fantastically more work than typing. Text is an effective and effecient medium. If the student can't figure out a slightly different way to accomplish a goal then they are incompetent with computers and only proficient insofar as memorizing one workflow.

What? Have you ever graded written papers? Have you ever seen a paper graded by a good teacher? We’re not talking about pages of written commentary here. The most “effective and efficient” approach involves circling words or phrases, underlining sentences, writing arrows from one part to another, scribbling some wavy lines in the margin, writing a few words here or there, ... There is a very limited amount of time av…

"Effective and efficient"? Or just lazy but fast?

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might imply that your highschool teacher friend is instead falling out of computer literacy, and that highshool students are moving away from her form of a computer-based workflow. I very rarely send emails at all outside of work. Maybe one or two support emails. I also fairly rarely create zip files either. Of course, I know how to do these things, but I don't really do it anymore. I haven't needed to, for the sam…

The problem is that all the new ways of doing things involve being a slave of some ecosystem that doesn't play well with other ecosystems. If Instagram, Snapchat, Dropbox, Slack, and Google Drive all interoperated properly, this wouldn't be a big deal.

And if you wanted them to interoperate properly... you'd essentially be reinventing a file system.

The problem is all these services try to control as much as they can. So interoperability becomes whatever contracts on the use of APIs they can sign with each other. You as a user have nothing to say.

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#306
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, precisely, makes it inferior?

Speaking of precision. I think a big problem with modern use of English is that it has reduced precision. What reduces precision? 1. Increased reliance on idioms to communicate. Idioms use analogies, and usually reduce precision. Our increasingly shared cultural context via the Internet means that more and more idioms are entering common use and (IMO) reducing the clarity of communication. 2. Reduced general vocabula…

Many of your complaints are based on an incorrect assumption: That what people do is writing.

Of course it is writing in the sense of using the alphabet. But has everyone started to write books and essays? No. In fact, people write less than they used to because letters have been mostly replaced by other methods of communication.

What you think is horrible written English is actually normal spoken English, just output through letters rather than sounds. And spoken language doesn't look anything like well-formed grammatical writing that doesn't give your English teacher a heart attack.

> 1/2

I'm getting strong Sapir–Whorf vibes here. Language adapts to what people say, not vice versa.

> Increased reliance on idioms to communicate. Idioms use analogies

No, they don't. Idioms have a meaning that is divorced from their constituent parts. They have a similar role to words.

> Reduced general vocabulary. We have more jargon than ever before, but regular writing is simpler than ever. Generally speaking, a reduced vocabulary means more concepts are "mapped" onto the same words (like "great," a highly over-mapped word.)

That is simply not how language works.

> 3

I, too, am concerned about the recent invention of satire and polemics. I hereby Modestly Propose to eat everyone that uses these diabolical stylistic devices and feed the leftovers to the Irish.

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking forward to self-driving electrics. You hop in the car, it takes you to your destination, and then you hop out. At off-peak hours they drive themselves to a car farm far away from the city, and recharge. The car service handles all maintenance. There's this phenomena where anything invented before you turn 10 is just part of the natural order of things, anything between 10 and 30 is a great new opportunity…

One would think the resistance to crypto has more to do with it's basic value proposition. Watching 4 years of every crypto coin functioning as a honeypot trap for the naive, then exploding, leaves a mark. Bitconnect making billions from scamming people rings truer in my mind than some vague ageism.

Also a good chunk of the crypto coins are based on a positive feedback loop between greed and electricity waste, which is kind of a scheme you'd expect from a supervillain.

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#308
post #176

To a computer science teacher, this feels like trying to walk up a down escalator. First-year CS students (middle school or high school) with experience using Apple products don't have a concept of a filesystem. The shift to auto-saving documents also corrodes the intuition that files get stored on disk in some non-magical way. In the same way that it's now easier to teach networking and graph theory because youth ex…

Is it a problem that students don't know abstraction layers lower than they regularly use, or that we're collectively climbing up the abstraction ladder as the years go by? I'm a full generation older than these students, and most of my colleagues can't read or write assembly language. I've worked with programmers who have never even written a compiler, database, or central processor. I'd say we're seeing that filesy…

There are good and bad abstractions, and the whole issue here is that filesystems are a good abstraction, both intellectually and ethically, and the "new" replacements are mutually incompatible lies that reduce your ability to accomplish what your goals with your device and simultaneously try to take ownership of the data and the device away from you.

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think vastly more people are reading and writing due to modern computer literacy, and I can't stand the way they are changing the meaning of words because they don't read books . It appears vocabulary is increasing, but people get their vocabulary from inadequate online dictionary entries and/or peers that don't read books either. So to me, because I grew up reading books, it's incredibly aggravating because it see…

I love the renaissance of language, the minting of new words and concepts, the remixing of our heritage words with new Unicode characters and the mashing of new syntax. I see it as progress - which destroys meanings as much as liberating new meanings. A word becomes a poetic palimpsest of needlessly complex layers. I am an engineer-type, I like concrete words with focused meanings, I failed English at school while ex…

There's definitely a mix of good and bad as language changes.

Losing the word "meme" to the colloquial definition is a loss and a massive disappointment to me, because I think the gene analogy is insightful. When I talk to people about memes-as-in-memetics they're bound to get confused or even disbelieve me that it had any other meaning.

I've been accused of man-splaining in situations where I am legitimately being helpful, am an authority on the subject, and have good intentions, so I kinda don't like that words contribution, personally.

Literally should mean literally, and only literally, because it's useless if it doesn't.

On the other hand, there were all sorts of weird and redundant words that existed in English that probably shouldn't. This probably isn't true, but the word "praxis" seems like it exists because someone important misspoke when trying to say "practice" and then insisted it was a word in itself.

My impression is that the effect the parent talks about is real, though. There is a lot of regression happening in the language even as people get more literate, and the echo chamber of the internet reinforces trends into more lasting changes.

My biggest gripe of all with anyone effecting change on language lies with the marketing-focused actors who think they're doing their job well when they:

1) Appropriate colloquialisms and push them into the mainstream where they have more staying power than they otherwise would.

2) Refuse to expose people to words they're not familiar with because it might not appeal to them. Ever consider some people might want to learn new words? That starts with exposure. Lowest common denominator advertising is a well-funded stupefying force.

3) Create new words and change meanings to suit their narrative/sales pitch. A recent example is an article CNN ran about a new alternative to vapes and cigarettes. What they described is actually just a different kind of vaporizer. It emits nicotine vapor. They're calling it something different to avoid the stigma that shallow media coverage of vaping created, and making the word more ambiguous and less useful as a result.

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#310
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we're not moving towards a metadata rich database, we're moving towards balkanized proprietary walled gardens in the cloud.

Both of these are true. We're moving towards walled gardens in the cloud, but within these cloud, your "files" are becoming rows in a highly sophisticated database, perhaps in addition to blobs in a highly sophisticated object storage system.

But it doesn't matter because you - the user - aren't exposed to the benefits or even the abstraction of that database. You don't get to make arbitrary queries for metadata. You get access to whatever half-featured interface the vendor bothered to implement, whereas the database is optimized for their operational and datamining purposes.
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