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Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

nytimes.com

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Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#81

Post by megaremote »

electric_muse wrote: post #22
randall wrote: post #9

Imagine if, in high density areas like Manhattan, cars were simply not allowed. Wow. The thought of how pleasant Manhattan would become if only cabs + busses + delivery trucks + ambulances were allowed makes me almost too happy. Would be so awesome.

Busses and delivery trucks are the most noisy and polluting! That doesn’t seem like the panacea you suggest.

Sure, if you compare 1 to 1. But you have 100s to 1 on any street. A 100 cars are lot more noisy and polluting than one bus.

https://www.iwillride.org/what-200-people-look-like-driving-...

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#82

Post by megaremote »

erik_seaberg wrote: post #51
komaromy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a per-unit basis, sure. There are way more cars than buses or delivery trucks though.

If I can't use my car, a lot more things need to be delivered. Anything I can't carry for half a mile, anything for which I'd be robbed …

So you will consume less to? Another bonus.

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#83

Post by Wowfunhappy »

adjkant wrote: post #76
cheschire wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefit of street cars is the centralization of power generation away from the population. The downside is having to build rails into the roads. An alternative could be running power lines over the roads and making buses electric.

Very fair for longterm, I'm thinking for immediate turnaround. I think with an aggressive enough plan (which isn't going to happen in reality) you could do this without any notable spending increases in 2-3 years by just stopping cars and maybe buying a few more busses as the main cost. After that if it continues to work out, streetcars absolutely make sense. Basically just doubling the subway lines at that point. Pr…

Long term, I would rather we build more subway lines than powered rails (or similar) for streetcars, even though subways are more expensive. Even without cars, we want that above ground space for pedestrians and cyclists.

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#84

Post by megaremote »

rubyboss wrote: post #5

I don't understand this anti-car sentiment from the city liberals. It's already happened here in London and it's getting worse. From 20mph speed limits to blocking roads for bus-only traffic to ultra-low emission zones and congestion charges. It's becoming pretty clear that they don't want people to own their own cars. I'm struggling to see how this is progress.

40,000 people are killed every single year in the USA due to cars. Over 2 million are injured or disabled. And that is direct deaths, not including deaths from pollution.

That is the tip of the iceberg for problems with cars.

And yet, you can't see why cars are a problem? I don't believe you.

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#85

Post by adjkant »

humanrebar wrote: post #74
adjkant wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% on the outer boroughs. This is a conversation about Manhattan... > You mean past 60th Yeah I counted the park busses in my head, but again, still good bus coverage. At least the worst case from 60-100 is literally a walk in the park.

People go in and out of Manhattan a lot. I'm saying you can't isolate the problem like that except for the people privileged enough to afford Manhattan rent.

What demo exactly are you targeting? Rent isn't as expensive on the outskirts but parking always is if you're talking a commute route, so it doesn't seem like we're talking low income working class people generally. So are we talking people driving in from Jersey/Long Island? What's stopping them from leaving a car just off the island and using public transit on it?

There's also the option of keeping things like FDR and Henry Hudson open and having a few concentrated parking hubs for those commuters as well. You're right, those cases need to be accounted for. And no matter what this won't solve the lack of coverage in the outer boroughs, but a solution there will take a ton of money politicians won't spend on non-wealthy donors.

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#86

Post by megaremote »

rubyboss wrote: post #32
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just about anyone who has breathed London air in the last 30 years sees how it is progress. Dirty, smelly and unhealthy that creates a coating on clothes, furniture and windows. That's probably not ideal for lungs. We notice, and hate it every time we visit the relatives down there. "Start breathing crap" kicks in around Hendon.

It sounds like you are agreeing with me that you don't want people to own their own cars? I suppose we should all just do as the millenials do: rent cars by the mile (Uber) at ridiculously expensive rates.

Or, you know. Catch the bus. Or the tram, or the train, or the ferry. Or walk. Or run. Or ride. Or get on a scooter. Of roller blade. Or use a skateboard.

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#87

Post by jshaqaw »

I’m torn on the cars in Manhattan debate. I live my whole city life on public transport. I hate the pollution of cars and I hate how perilous it is for my kids to cross the streets.

At the same time we sometimes do want to or have to travel outside the city. I’m not really sure how that would work in a car free city.

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#88

Post by randallsquared »

randall wrote: post #9

Imagine if, in high density areas like Manhattan, cars were simply not allowed. Wow. The thought of how pleasant Manhattan would become if only cabs + busses + delivery trucks + ambulances were allowed makes me almost too happy. Would be so awesome.

I just don't understand this.

I moved to Manhattan last year, and while there some things I've been annoyed about, it wouldn't have occurred to me to put "cars" on that list. I didn't bring my car here, and having driven a rental a couple times in the city, it's hard for me to imagine why anyone drives here if they don't have to: the experience as a driver is far, far worse than as a pedestrian.

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#89

Post by adjkant »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #83
adjkant wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very fair for longterm, I'm thinking for immediate turnaround. I think with an aggressive enough plan (which isn't going to happen in reality) you could do this without any notable spending increases in 2-3 years by just stopping cars and maybe buying a few more busses as the main cost. After that if it continues to work out, streetcars absolutely make sense. Basically just doubling the subway lines at that point. Pr…

Long term, I would rather we build more subway lines than powered rails (or similar) for streetcars, even though subways are more expensive. Even without cars, we want that above ground space for pedestrians and cyclists.

I'd be in agreement generally but the subway coverage is pretty dense with maybe exception to the far east/west ends. More trains per line is probably money and effort better spent at that point. You still need roads for emergency vehicles and those that need to drive, so I don't think lack of streetcars will actually save a ton of pedestrian space. In an ideal world for sure though.

Re: Restricting Manhattan’s 14th street to buses has been a success

#90

Post by bootlooped »

quest88 wrote: post #37
wetpaws wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a false dichotomy. One does not exclude another.

It's still a valid point: If there were a better alternative to cars for the people who currently drive cars then wouldn't they use it? So provide a better solution instead of using force.

Many people just prefer their own vehicle and will drive no matter how good public transit is.

Edit: look at Seoul or Tokyo, with some of the best subway systems in the world, maybe the best. People still drive cars.

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