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Computer Files Are Going Extinct

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Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#221

Post by l_t »

stormbrew wrote: post #147
perl4ever wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think vastly more people are reading and writing due to modern computer literacy, and I can't stand the way they are changing the meaning of words because they don't read books . It appears vocabulary is increasing, but people get their vocabulary from inadequate online dictionary entries and/or peers that don't read books either. So to me, because I grew up reading books, it's incredibly aggravating because it see…

What, precisely, makes it inferior?

Speaking of precision. I think a big problem with modern use of English is that it has reduced precision.

What reduces precision?

1. Increased reliance on idioms to communicate. Idioms use analogies, and usually reduce precision. Our increasingly shared cultural context via the Internet means that more and more idioms are entering common use and (IMO) reducing the clarity of communication.

2. Reduced general vocabulary. We have more jargon than ever before, but regular writing is simpler than ever. Generally speaking, a reduced vocabulary means more concepts are "mapped" onto the same words (like "great," a highly over-mapped word.)

3. Irony and sarcasm are abused as argumentation tools. Mocking a point is commonly accepted as arguing against it. I believe this stems from acceptance of irony as a normal way of communicating (as opposed to using it mainly for humor). This also results in many words having two opposite meanings, a "true" one and an ironic one. (ofc this happened in the past too, see history of the word "egregious.")

4. Ease of publishing. People put less effort into writing today because the barriers are lower. Yes, there are still authors who put a lot of thought into their work, but the Internet is awash in poorly-chosen words and ill-thought-out language that frankly didn't exist in the past. Poor language has poor meaning, and this actually damages the trust people have with the written word.

Of course, this is just my personal thoughts... I don't have strong problems with modern language. I think your question about "inferior" is a good one because superior vs. inferior doesn't make sense without metrics for comparison. If the metric is personal appreciation, then superior vs inferior is just subjective. If the metric is density of information transfer, I suspect we've improved.

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#222

Post by bcyn »

eecc wrote: post #108
cproctor wrote: post #74

To a computer science teacher, this feels like trying to walk up a down escalator. First-year CS students (middle school or high school) with experience using Apple products don't have a concept of a filesystem. The shift to auto-saving documents also corrodes the intuition that files get stored on disk in some non-magical way. In the same way that it's now easier to teach networking and graph theory because youth ex…

Frankly, we’ve been fantasizing of moving away from the file-system-as-tree abstraction since forever, wanting to embrace a metadata rich database approach. Can’t happen soon enough imho

> a metadata rich database approach

Can you ELI5 what this means? Very curious to understand ideas on alternatives to the traditional file-system abstraction.

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#223

Post by cookie_monsta »

blub wrote: post #199
jedimastert wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might imply that your highschool teacher friend is instead falling out of computer literacy, and that highshool students are moving away from her form of a computer-based workflow. I very rarely send emails at all outside of work. Maybe one or two support emails. I also fairly rarely create zip files either. Of course, I know how to do these things, but I don't really do it anymore. I haven't needed to, for the sam…

Anyone suggesting using proprietary cloud products for something that's mandatory for participating in society hasn't thought things through: 1. The privacy policy of Google & Dropbox is a catastrophe. 2. They can ban you at any time for all sorts of silly reasons and then you can't even turn your homework in any more.

My kids have been to 4 schools so far (we move around a fair bit). In each one they are expected to have a Google account which is linked to their school in some sort of G Suite arrangement.

I don't know if it's a coincidence or a department policy, but Google gets them early and if you think that's bad, teachers aren't to blame - maybe schools are or possibly the education dept.

Honestly I was a little surprised that there was no discussion about it. I talk to my kids about the way the web and privacy is going and I don't expect schools to do everything but they should be a little more aware of the issues imo.

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#224

Post by seabird »

jedimastert wrote: post #92
unqueued wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a very similar anecdote. I had a long conversation with a friend who is a high school science teacher. She told me that computer literacy has plummeted in the last ten years. She has her students go into the field and collect data in the form of photos, spreadsheets, and typed reports. She wants students to bundle these files in zip files, and email them to her. Students have no idea how to do this. Some of th…

I might imply that your highschool teacher friend is instead falling out of computer literacy, and that highshool students are moving away from her form of a computer-based workflow. I very rarely send emails at all outside of work. Maybe one or two support emails. I also fairly rarely create zip files either. Of course, I know how to do these things, but I don't really do it anymore. I haven't needed to, for the sam…

I've worked for various companies in the engineering and manufacturing industries, and zipping and sending files over email is as far from dead as you can imagine, and has a very bright future ahead of it. Frankly, today's high school students have wildly deficient computer skills. We're talking about teenagers whose usage of a computer usually consists of browsing Facebook and listening to music on Spotify, not actually doing productive work; informing workflows based on input from such users is like asking a painter how a fireman's tools should work.

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#225

Post by quarkral »

faanghacker wrote: post #83
maliker wrote: post #26

I don't understand how people can get work done in the post-file world. Any project I've got that's more complicated than a todo list has text files, images, code, links to websites, emails, and typeset documents. The only thing that holds all that stuff, organizes it into folders, lets me edit/run it, and makes the content searchable is a filesystem. Maybe my standards for usability are too high.

That's because the post file world is designed for consumers, not producers. YouTube creators and software programmers are still using standard computers.

even for a consumer, file synchronization is very painful without a filesystem. I usually use Resilio Sync between my devices, but I couldn't get it to work properly on an iPad without manually copying files between apps every time I wanted to update a file.

most iPhone consumers I know of are constantly complaining about their phone running out of memory from photos and whatnot, and they don't understand how to transfer between devices.

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#226

Post by antaviana »

cproctor wrote: post #74

To a computer science teacher, this feels like trying to walk up a down escalator. First-year CS students (middle school or high school) with experience using Apple products don't have a concept of a filesystem. The shift to auto-saving documents also corrodes the intuition that files get stored on disk in some non-magical way. In the same way that it's now easier to teach networking and graph theory because youth ex…

My hairdresser, who knew I was into computers, once asked me “when I delete a picture on my mobile phone, where does it go?”.

I first thought he was asking if there was some kind of Recycle Bin on Android, but then he said: “when we die, our body is burier or burned, that is it becomes bones or ashes, but what happens with the picture on the mobile phone, what does it become?”

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#227

Post by cosmodisk »

cproctor wrote: post #74

To a computer science teacher, this feels like trying to walk up a down escalator. First-year CS students (middle school or high school) with experience using Apple products don't have a concept of a filesystem. The shift to auto-saving documents also corrodes the intuition that files get stored on disk in some non-magical way. In the same way that it's now easier to teach networking and graph theory because youth ex…

I work in an office environment with relatively young people and it is absolutely shocking how little people know about computers or some underlying technologies,despite using them all day,every day.Very few if any, go beyond of the basics of how to open up a website or create a word document. The willingness to learn something new is close to zero and always downplayed with "I'm not good with computers". I've got a feeling that to most office workers pivot table in Excel is the highest possible level of technical knowledge.

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#228

Post by Zanni »

jedimastert wrote: post #92
unqueued wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a very similar anecdote. I had a long conversation with a friend who is a high school science teacher. She told me that computer literacy has plummeted in the last ten years. She has her students go into the field and collect data in the form of photos, spreadsheets, and typed reports. She wants students to bundle these files in zip files, and email them to her. Students have no idea how to do this. Some of th…

I might imply that your highschool teacher friend is instead falling out of computer literacy, and that highshool students are moving away from her form of a computer-based workflow. I very rarely send emails at all outside of work. Maybe one or two support emails. I also fairly rarely create zip files either. Of course, I know how to do these things, but I don't really do it anymore. I haven't needed to, for the sam…

A little of both, maybe. In defense of your position, though, I agree that zip files are an odd choice. Why not bundle everything into a single document, a Word file or a PDF?

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#229

Post by jacobolus »

unqueued wrote: post #189
WalterBright wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have certainly seen kids who have to go as far as taking screenshots of what an app contains and send a screenshot to someone, than actually be able to export text. I used to export the text of my travel itineraries, and go through several steps to get it on my phone. Now I just take a photo of the text on my screen. It's just one step :-)

Yeah but what if you are grading papers, do you want to mark up bitmaps? People need to learn that there is more than one way to do something.

> if you are grading papers do you want to mark up bitmaps?

Why not? Get a tablet with a stylus and draw your commentary directly on the image.

That is the way teachers have always marked up student work, just now without a paper copy or a physical red pen.

Trying to mark up documents using MS Word or Google Docs or whatever is a horrible experience in comparison.

Re: Computer Files Are Going Extinct

#230

Post by htns »

pm90 wrote: post #169
stormbrew wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, precisely, makes it inferior?

Not the OP, but will take a crack: A divergence from the acceptable usage of words makes comprehension difficult, and can cause miscommunications, especially where precision is required; which happens often in a business environment. Even in a misunderstanding of proper usage can severely change the intent behind the messaging, if most communication happens over text (Slack/Email etc.). That being said... if I'm read…

>Europeans failed to keep Latin relevant. Indians failed to keep Sanskrit relevant. They kept the languages for thousands of years. Ancient Egyptians kept hieroglyphics going even longer. We are able to maintain languages without any problems, if we just choose to.
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