Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is • Hacker News Board

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#11

Post by cumwolf » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 1:55 PM UTC

fiblye wrote: post #5

Undiluted orientalism. I was in Osaka this weekend and litter is everywhere. By far one of the dirtiest major cities I’ve seen in East Asia. In the city I live in in Japan, the rice fields are full of coffee cans, plastic bottles, and bento packaging thrown out from cars. Streets are covered in cigarette butts and somehow I see natto containers in the middle of nowhere. Going hiking, I see tea bottles and plastic bag…

that's very fascinating, as someone who has only experienced Tokyo, I was amazed with how clean it was compared to other Eastern Asian cities (I lived in Shanghai). Wouldn't have guessed it was a bit of smoke and mirrors.

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#12

Post by franciscop » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

Except Shibuya, we walked there yesterday after the typhoon and had to avoid the big rats that normally live in the big trash piles, probably they were looking for food since yday there was no trash. I've seen similar situation with crows.

This is a mostly invisible issue for tourists since trash collection happens in the morning and people take the trash out the night before, so the piles of trash and animals are visible at night mostly.

And they then enter the convinis (warning, gross rats inside convini):

https://twitter.com/Ginkai19990324/status/115807601769873408...

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#13

Post by Aperocky » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

Reason077 wrote: post #4

Sadly, this is the opposite of the UK cultural attitude. Kids here learn that cleaning up is someone else’s responsibility. Littering becomes a habit from an early age. Even compared to Americans, we are terrible litterers. You can see this in people’s behaviours in fast food restaurants: in the US (as in many other countries), customers will bin their food wrappers and return their tray when they leave. Even groups…

Whoa, that sucks. Out of curiosity, do people in UK tip? In the states, if there's no tip, then it is expected for the customer to clean up after themselves.

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#14

Post by nnutter » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

fiblye wrote: post #5

Undiluted orientalism. I was in Osaka this weekend and litter is everywhere. By far one of the dirtiest major cities I’ve seen in East Asia. In the city I live in in Japan, the rice fields are full of coffee cans, plastic bottles, and bento packaging thrown out from cars. Streets are covered in cigarette butts and somehow I see natto containers in the middle of nowhere. Going hiking, I see tea bottles and plastic bag…

Those surgical masks may not be doing much either due to improper use. As they get wet due to moisture in the breath they become less permeable causing more of the air to be vented out the sides rather than through the membrane. Perhaps this could still decrease the radius of infection even in this suboptimal state.

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#15

Post by pjdemers » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

There are street cleaners in Japan. I used to visit Tokyo often and I would go running just before dawn. I saw plenty of people (usually elderly) collecting trash and sweeping up.

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#16

Post by hannob » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

chvid wrote: post #6

As a Dane travelling abouts I have been stuck how clean the following three countries seemed compared to my home country: Australia, Singapore, and Japan.

As a German I can assure you Denmark is far above the average in Europe in public space cleanliness :-)

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#17

Post by coldtea » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

cumwolf wrote: post #11

fiblye wrote: post #5

Undiluted orientalism. I was in Osaka this weekend and litter is everywhere. By far one of the dirtiest major cities I’ve seen in East Asia. In the city I live in in Japan, the rice fields are full of coffee cans, plastic bottles, and bento packaging thrown out from cars. Streets are covered in cigarette butts and somehow I see natto containers in the middle of nowhere. Going hiking, I see tea bottles and plastic bag…

that's very fascinating, as someone who has only experienced Tokyo, I was amazed with how clean it was compared to other Eastern Asian cities (I lived in Shanghai). Wouldn't have guessed it was a bit of smoke and mirrors.

Or the parent's comment is a big of exaggeration to downplay the general cleanliness.

Compared to most major global cities it's night and day.

I'd take a hard look on NY, Chicago, L.A, London, Paris, Amsterdam, before I complain like the grandparent about the Japanese situation which is an order of magnitude better...

Tokyo of course is on a league of its own, but here's Osaka Street View, go around, how does it compare to what you read?

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.675107,135.5261238,3a,75y,27...

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#18

Post by lol768 » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

Aperocky wrote: post #13

Reason077 wrote: post #4

Sadly, this is the opposite of the UK cultural attitude. Kids here learn that cleaning up is someone else’s responsibility. Littering becomes a habit from an early age. Even compared to Americans, we are terrible litterers. You can see this in people’s behaviours in fast food restaurants: in the US (as in many other countries), customers will bin their food wrappers and return their tray when they leave. Even groups…

Whoa, that sucks. Out of curiosity, do people in UK tip? In the states, if there's no tip, then it is expected for the customer to clean up after themselves.

>Out of curiosity, do people in UK tip?

Not in a fast-food restaurant, no.

You'll often see folks in cafés help out and return their trays, but it's not a guarantee - and in some establishments it's not even possible for you as a customer to do this. At the end of the day, you're paying to sit down - and clearing your table afterwards is priced into the food offer.

Fast food is a bit more of a grey area, since there's not necessarily table service. I'd throw away my rubbish at e.g. Burger King - there's usually bins provided for this purpose.

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#19

Post by whiddershins » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

fiblye wrote: post #5

Undiluted orientalism. I was in Osaka this weekend and litter is everywhere. By far one of the dirtiest major cities I’ve seen in East Asia. In the city I live in in Japan, the rice fields are full of coffee cans, plastic bottles, and bento packaging thrown out from cars. Streets are covered in cigarette butts and somehow I see natto containers in the middle of nowhere. Going hiking, I see tea bottles and plastic bag…

Maybe the explanation is a bit overwrought but it’s a fact that Tokyo is astonishingly clean, and I never once saw someone drop large trash in the street, even though there aren’t bins.

That could be as simple as broken windows theory but the contrast with Brooklyn is striking.

The cultural attitude difference is real to some degree. People tend to smoke while standing in one place, a designated smoking area outside with an ashtray, not walk and smoke. This is a huge difference and reflects a priority on not annoying people around you.

That’s just one of many example I could give of what are obviously and viscerally differences in habit, custom, and perspective about consideration for strangers.

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#20

Post by netsharc » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:07 PM UTC

fiblye wrote: post #5

Undiluted orientalism. I was in Osaka this weekend and litter is everywhere. By far one of the dirtiest major cities I’ve seen in East Asia. In the city I live in in Japan, the rice fields are full of coffee cans, plastic bottles, and bento packaging thrown out from cars. Streets are covered in cigarette butts and somehow I see natto containers in the middle of nowhere. Going hiking, I see tea bottles and plastic bag…

I was in Tokyo and Osaka these last weeks, and China before Tokyo. Landing in Tokyo after China was magical. People didn't shout in public or have their phones blaring. They let people disembark trains instead of just barging in as soon as the train doors open, and they queue neatly for those doors. And yes everything was clean and tidy.

But the touristy area of Osaka was back to being dreadful. People cutting you off while walking, groups stopping in the middle of the way, often with their rolling suitcases blocking more of the path. I noticed there were many Chinese tourists (from the language with which they were shouting at each other..).

I don't agree that the lack of litter is only due to the cleanup. The Japanese in general follow the rules as expected, like I wrote above with queueing and putting their phones on silent mode.