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Seizing the Means of Knowledge Production

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Re: Seizing the Means of Knowledge Production

#31

Post by EGreg »

ralusek wrote: post #8

It's always interesting to see Hayek's words, followed by a timestamp. Similar, although less recent at nearly 25 years ago, is this Peter Thiel video discussing the illusion of multiculturalism in 1996 https://youtu.be/qTPOBEdc7OI?t=722 . The degree to which radically far left ideology is taught in university is one of the most prevalent contributors to the current political schism. America has been primarily libera…

I think this is called by many “postmodernism” and it is found on the right and on the left - though far more on the left. Foucalt was a big proponent. He rejected the label but others ran with it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism

Re: Seizing the Means of Knowledge Production

#32

Post by EGreg »

andrekandre wrote: post #12
ralusek wrote: post #8

It's always interesting to see Hayek's words, followed by a timestamp. Similar, although less recent at nearly 25 years ago, is this Peter Thiel video discussing the illusion of multiculturalism in 1996 https://youtu.be/qTPOBEdc7OI?t=722 . The degree to which radically far left ideology is taught in university is one of the most prevalent contributors to the current political schism. America has been primarily libera…

> Most notably, one's racial and gender identity are brought to the foreground as bar none the primary contributors to the outcomes an individual will encounter. do you have any hard evidence if this? > people are skeptical of markets and a market value associated with their actions assuming that is true, why is that?

People are skeptical of markets because of various factors:

1. That the rich get richer, so to speak, and inequality grows, leading to increasing numbers of people not being able to afford basic rent.

2. That government is captured by markets and corporate welfare is rampant, while welfare programs for the poor are cut

3. People are not LLCs and we don’t want them to just go bankrupt and run out of resources because they can’t earn enough to cover basic needs. This is becoming especially pertinent with automation and outsourcing reducing demand for local labor.

4. That traditionally valued activities such as a homemaker raising kids have zero market value now that both sexes work

and so on.

Non-market solutions such as a single payer for universal health insurance, universal education etc. are considered essential in any modern democracy. This is called social democracy.

Re: Seizing the Means of Knowledge Production

#33

Post by nerdponx »

cwyers wrote: post #9

> In short, literally none of this stuff is actually new. Indeed, as Oliver Traldi has pointed out, the entire contemporary debate around ‘free speech’ and ‘political correctness’ bears an uncanny likeness to 1990s controversies on these same topics. Perhaps George Santayana was right when he declared that those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. Um, how far ago does the author think the 90s are…

There are a lot of "regular people" out there interested in these issues who were too young to have been involved in the '90s. Maybe the tone is off but I certainly appreciated the history lesson.

Re: Seizing the Means of Knowledge Production

#34

Post by K2L8M11N2 »

bloaf wrote: post #28
Nasrudith wrote: post #10

That is an awful lot of words for "people who don't agree with me are part of a vast conspiracy". Put aside the possibility that the reason elites disagree is because they know something that the author doesn't. Even if one disagrees with a prevailing philosophy or even if it is objectively wrong but the idea catches on doesn't mean there is a conspiracy. That a rant from the 70s sounds like one today says more about…

Here is another statement which you can characterize as "people who don't agree with me are part of a vast conspiracy." > Republicans have been making concerted efforts to stack US courts with conservative judges. Accusing someone of promoting a conspiracy theory is to accuse someone of making creating an unfalsifiable story, which does not seem to be the case in either my example statement or the original post. Spec…

https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/01/14/too-many-people-dare-c...

Re: Seizing the Means of Knowledge Production

#35

Post by logimame »

EGreg wrote: post #31
ralusek wrote: post #8

It's always interesting to see Hayek's words, followed by a timestamp. Similar, although less recent at nearly 25 years ago, is this Peter Thiel video discussing the illusion of multiculturalism in 1996 https://youtu.be/qTPOBEdc7OI?t=722 . The degree to which radically far left ideology is taught in university is one of the most prevalent contributors to the current political schism. America has been primarily libera…

I think this is called by many “postmodernism” and it is found on the right and on the left - though far more on the left. Foucalt was a big proponent. He rejected the label but others ran with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism

No, postmodernism is not identity politics. This video explains this very well: https://youtu.be/26fIBA7O5Ag

Although postmodernism isn’t as strictly defined as other philosophical movements, one can still clearly say what it doesn’t represent. Postmodern philosophy is typically associated on the internet as feminism/multiculturalism/Cultural Marxism, although it is none of that at all. It may have some loose ties by influencing some feminists and critical theorists through some scholars such as Foucault and Deleuze, but you can’t really mash all of them into a same philosophical movement.

Re: Seizing the Means of Knowledge Production

#36

Post by mikemotherwell »

llamataboot wrote: post #30
ralusek wrote: post #8

It's always interesting to see Hayek's words, followed by a timestamp. Similar, although less recent at nearly 25 years ago, is this Peter Thiel video discussing the illusion of multiculturalism in 1996 https://youtu.be/qTPOBEdc7OI?t=722 . The degree to which radically far left ideology is taught in university is one of the most prevalent contributors to the current political schism. America has been primarily libera…

Meanwhile, in the United States, the black and white wealth gap continues completely unchanged for over 50 years, despite having addressed "racism". Wealth disparities have increased to levels not seen in generations. Your income remains tightly coupled and correlated to your parents income. Etc Etc Etc. So basically, from any actual social scientific perspective, meritocracy always has been the bullshit fantasy of c…

Anger at these things obscures the ability to find a solution. When you say "the black and white wealth gap continues completely unchanged for over 50 years', I get that is hyperbole, but surely it has changed in some ways, if not on aggregate then in specific locales, in the curve of the distribution... in SOME way.

Given that lots of other things have changed in society, if this gap has stayed the same as an average or median on the whole, that is speaking to something deeper. So what, exactly?

Thomas Sowell makes the point that average ages vary by race: https://www.tsowell.com/spracecu.html and there must be other factors, like where races live. Asians being based in San Francisco pre Silicon Valley's boom has surely had a positive affect on their collective income and wealth.

I really wish there was a clear cut answer, but there self evidently isn't one, unless we believe that every change in society in the last 50 years was made for cynical reasons. So there must be all sorts of answers in the data, sliced properly, that could lead us to a more equitable future.

Re: Seizing the Means of Knowledge Production

#37

Post by [deleted] »

EGreg wrote: post #31
ralusek wrote: post #8

It's always interesting to see Hayek's words, followed by a timestamp. Similar, although less recent at nearly 25 years ago, is this Peter Thiel video discussing the illusion of multiculturalism in 1996 https://youtu.be/qTPOBEdc7OI?t=722 . The degree to which radically far left ideology is taught in university is one of the most prevalent contributors to the current political schism. America has been primarily libera…

I think this is called by many “postmodernism” and it is found on the right and on the left - though far more on the left. Foucalt was a big proponent. He rejected the label but others ran with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism

[deleted]

Re: Seizing the Means of Knowledge Production

#38

Post by Zarath »

logimame wrote: post #35
EGreg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is called by many “postmodernism” and it is found on the right and on the left - though far more on the left. Foucalt was a big proponent. He rejected the label but others ran with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism

No, postmodernism is not identity politics. This video explains this very well: https://youtu.be/26fIBA7O5Ag Although postmodernism isn’t as strictly defined as other philosophical movements, one can still clearly say what it doesn’t represent. Postmodern philosophy is typically associated on the internet as feminism/multiculturalism/Cultural Marxism, although it is none of that at all. It may have some loose ties by…

This can't be stressed enough. Though I think this idea gets pushed quite a bit from Jordan Peterson and the rest of the reactionary right YT-sphere

Re: Seizing the Means of Knowledge Production

#39

Post by [deleted] »

logimame wrote: post #35
EGreg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is called by many “postmodernism” and it is found on the right and on the left - though far more on the left. Foucalt was a big proponent. He rejected the label but others ran with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism

No, postmodernism is not identity politics. This video explains this very well: https://youtu.be/26fIBA7O5Ag Although postmodernism isn’t as strictly defined as other philosophical movements, one can still clearly say what it doesn’t represent. Postmodern philosophy is typically associated on the internet as feminism/multiculturalism/Cultural Marxism, although it is none of that at all. It may have some loose ties by…

[deleted]

Re: Seizing the Means of Knowledge Production

#40

Post by kaens »

mikemotherwell wrote: post #36
llamataboot wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, in the United States, the black and white wealth gap continues completely unchanged for over 50 years, despite having addressed "racism". Wealth disparities have increased to levels not seen in generations. Your income remains tightly coupled and correlated to your parents income. Etc Etc Etc. So basically, from any actual social scientific perspective, meritocracy always has been the bullshit fantasy of c…

Anger at these things obscures the ability to find a solution. When you say "the black and white wealth gap continues completely unchanged for over 50 years', I get that is hyperbole, but surely it has changed in some ways, if not on aggregate then in specific locales, in the curve of the distribution... in SOME way. Given that lots of other things have changed in society, if this gap has stayed the same as an averag…

> that is speaking to something deeper. So what, exactly?

the lingering effects of hundreds of years of overt oppression of both the individual and systemic sort.

this whole thing is like telling a bunch of contestants in a race that they have to start a minute late and aren't allowed to practice and then pretending like that's not going to be a factor in their finish times.

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