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Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

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Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#51
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Make no mistake - humans are only able to live there while burning copious amounts of hydrocarbons to stay warm and/or generate electricity. And they don't live particularly well. People have lived in such places for millennia, before "burning copious amounts of hydrocarbons" was a thing...

Have they? Norilsk seems to have been founded in the 20th century, so I guess people have been living there during two different millennia, technically. But not before hydrocarbons.

The Paleo-Eskimo, Dorset and Inuit cultures have existed in the Arctic North for over 4500 years.

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time someone at a fancy party drinking Napa Cabernet and munching on double cream brie from France tells everyone that the United States and Europe can do just fine without China and Russia show them these Youtube videos. That pollution and those kind of hell on earth condition is what we have moved over there.

5 second Google indicates France and Australia both produce more nickel than Russia. Brazil is not far behind. China comes in 6th. So, I think you picked a bad example. Edit: the above may not be reliable - a different source puts the Philippines at the top. But anyway.

> 5 second Google indicates France and Australia both produce more nickel than Russia. Brazil is not far behind. China comes in 6th. > So, I think you picked a bad example.

It is not just nickel. Rather it is the entire mine->produce chain for most of the minerals has largely been "outsourced" to countries that we think are incredibly polluted.

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#53
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Make no mistake - humans are only able to live there while burning copious amounts of hydrocarbons to stay warm and/or generate electricity. And they don't live particularly well. People have lived in such places for millennia, before "burning copious amounts of hydrocarbons" was a thing...

Have they? Norilsk seems to have been founded in the 20th century, so I guess people have been living there during two different millennia, technically. But not before hydrocarbons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_Siberia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit

Not to mention the whole of human population passing through an ice age:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#54
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they? Norilsk seems to have been founded in the 20th century, so I guess people have been living there during two different millennia, technically. But not before hydrocarbons.

The Paleo-Eskimo, Dorset and Inuit cultures have existed in the Arctic North for over 4500 years.

I was interpreting "such places" to mean cities like Norilsk. Assuming I've never heard of the Inuit or whatever is offensively patronizing and violates the HN recommendation to respond to the most reasonable interpretation of a comment.

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's unfettered state capitalism in this case. Stalin mandated Norilsk's development to enrich the state. Similar to the modern Chinese model. So socialism has little to nothing to do with it.

This is not even wrong.

correct, it is not wrong.

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#56
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Paleo-Eskimo, Dorset and Inuit cultures have existed in the Arctic North for over 4500 years.

I was interpreting "such places" to mean cities like Norilsk. Assuming I've never heard of the Inuit or whatever is offensively patronizing and violates the HN recommendation to respond to the most reasonable interpretation of a comment.

>I was interpreting "such places" to mean cities like Norilsk.

And why would we know how you "interpreted it" if it wasn't spelt out? And what would be the limits to accept other places as being "like Norilsk"?

Cold cities only (e.g. not a cold village)? Cold places in Russia? Cold industrial cities only? Cities that get dark in the artic for months? Would similarly cold places elsewhere count? Does it have to get to -40 celcius or a city that gets to -20 will do?

The "most reasonable interpretation of a comment" of what we were already discussing in this thread is that we weren't talking about Norilsk lookalikes, but about whether people could live in such adverse settlements before or are "only able to live there while burning copious amounts of hydrocarbons to stay warm and/or generate electricity".

That was literally the claim that started the subthread.

>Assuming I've never heard of the Inuit or whatever is offensively patronizing and violates the HN recommendation to respond to the most reasonable interpretation of a comment.

It's not that difficult to not have heard of the Inuit, or to have heard of them but believe they lived if other conditions, or whatever.

The "outrage" is rude, and probably violates the same HN recommendation it invokes (if not others too). The parent replied very calmly to a question.

HN is global and has people of all places and all ages, including people who know little or nothing about Alaska and the Inuit. And people don't know all kind of basic things if they're not in their interests. Heck, many people can't place basic countries on the map, much less know about the Inuit. Just because someone is a programmer, and reads HN, is no guarantee.

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#57
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like Denmark?

I'm baffled every time I encounter the the widespread belief among young american adults that Northern Europe is a socialist utopia. Denmark ranks higher than the US in ease of doing business (regulations, taxation, etc), see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ease_of_doing_business_index#R... , but deregulation is not exactly what people bringing Denmark up as an example have in mind, is it?

I happen to be an ordoliberal not a socialist.

Deregulation is fine with me as long as capitalism is producing the desired outcome.

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