Python is not a great programming language • Hacker News Board

Re: Python is not a great programming language

#61

Post by turbinerneiter » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

juped wrote: post #29

I wish more languages did something like the D feature where method syntax and function syntax are really just syntax - i.e., str.len() is equivalent to len(str), and you use the syntax that best improves readability at your call site.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Function_Call_Syntax

Called uniform function call syntax, an I idea I first saw in Nim and found really cool, but then found really dumb. Can't remember the reasoning for both opinions, which is a strong indicator of "probably doesn't matter".

For a while I was entertaining a thought regarding mutability and returning copy's. Like foo.bar() would mutate, bar(foo) return a modified copy. Don't know if that concept has a name or if it actually makes sense at all.

Re: Python is not a great programming language

#62

Post by jolux » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

The biggest beefs I have with Python are inconsistent syntax and dynamic typing. But I've basically decided that dynamic types are a waste of time for me personally, so I'm not really the target audience anyways.

Re: Python is not a great programming language

#63

Post by beager » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

There’s plenty to criticize Python about relating to performance and developer operations (pypi, virtualenvs, cumbersome version juggling), but most of these language features mentioned have a valid need to exist, or are purely stylistic, and therefore not admissible to the “not a great programming language” debate imo.

Re: Python is not a great programming language

#64

Post by mythrwy » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 9:05 PM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #26

polotics wrote: post #6

This list is so deliciously sophomoric. The best one is, and I quote: """To many other weirdo bits of magic syntax, like [list comprehensions]""" Obviously without actually proposing how comprehensions could be made better one has to hope the author would say he likes the equivalent Haskell better, but there is a strong doubt that is not the case.

I personally find list comprehensions in python pretty horrible. They seem to exist only to do lots of stuff in one single line of code. You end up with totally impenetrable unreadable perl-esq garbage write-once-read-never code that is too clever for its own good. And people say python is easy to learn and good for beginners...! A better approach would be something like Java Streams/.net Lync/RxX pattern IMO. Explic…

List comprehensions are one of those abuse subject features (like most things) where light simple use is fantastic but some people just take it too far into unreadable nastiness.

Re: Python is not a great programming language

#65

Post by FpUser » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 9:05 PM UTC

hannibalhorn wrote: post #33

Jack of all trades, master of none. The article has a silly premise - I don't know anybody who would claim it's a great programming language. For the moment, it's just the most practical in certain areas (notably data science and machine learning.)

I know a company, they have a floor filled with developers who think that Python is the best thing since sliced bread and any other language is abomination

Re: Python is not a great programming language

#66

Post by dang » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 9:05 PM UTC

polotics wrote: post #6

This list is so deliciously sophomoric. The best one is, and I quote: """To many other weirdo bits of magic syntax, like [list comprehensions]""" Obviously without actually proposing how comprehensions could be made better one has to hope the author would say he likes the equivalent Haskell better, but there is a strong doubt that is not the case.

"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

For example, instead of putting someone's article down as sophomoric, you could explain what's different and possibly better about Haskell list comprehensions.

Re: Python is not a great programming language

#67

Post by ng12 » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 9:06 PM UTC

marcinzm wrote: post #56

ng12 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about how condescending of a programmer not knowing JS causes you to be :-) Either way, if the number of idiosyncracies in your language is confusing to junior developers it's absolutely something worth considering.

>Either way, if the number of idiosyncracies in your language is confusing to junior developers it's absolutely something worth considering. Why? Aiming for the lowest common denominators and the simplest systems tends to not create scalable long term solutions. You also seem to really undercount what a properly trained junior developer is capable of understanding.

Most popular programming languages got popular by aiming for the LCD in some capacity, e.g. Java. It's the reason why we're not all writing LISP or Haskell.

Re: Python is not a great programming language

#68

Post by FpUser » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 9:06 PM UTC

Stubb wrote: post #52

hannibalhorn wrote: post #33

Jack of all trades, master of none. The article has a silly premise - I don't know anybody who would claim it's a great programming language. For the moment, it's just the most practical in certain areas (notably data science and machine learning.)

Python's power comes from the fantastic array of libraries to which it provides access. Much of my Python coding involves stringing together calls to SciPy, Matplotlib, lxml, and the like. It's a super productive language so long as you don't need multithreaded performance.

Too bad you can not use it to write those libraries ;)

Re: Python is not a great programming language

#69

Post by novok » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 9:07 PM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #5

I love Rob Pikes idea that is dumb to have scope determined by invisible characters

In the era that python was created in, autoformatters were not a thing and I appreciated the forced indentation. Nowadays with autoformatters being standard, the downsides of semantic white space is not worth it.

Re: Python is not a great programming language

#70

Post by sidlls » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 9:07 PM UTC

There are plenty of things about Python that are not good, and only two are touched on in this list (the cumbersome double-underscore syntax and "magic methods" in general, although the author clearly has experienced python mainly through Django, which has other problems). The rest read like someone who doesn't really know the language that well and hasn't a lot of experience in general.