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‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room

#21

Post by catalogia »

pascalxus wrote: post #16

The wildfire situation in CA was not helped by all those houses so darn close to each other.

> [In Paradise, California] There were 12,981 housing units at an average density of 708.5 per square mile (273.5/km²)

That doesn't seem so unusually dense to me. And the pictures I saw online of the burned houses all have the foundations reasonably far away from each other. These were houses with yards around them, not row homes put right up next to each other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise,_California#/media/Fi...

Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room

#22

Post by hwbehrens »

luckydata wrote: post #13
dstroot wrote: post #11

It will be interesting watching how all this plays out. As others have noted the liability math has certainly changed. Enough to bankrupt one of the largest utility companies in the country. One the other hand this is also a political statement. They are clearly signaling to the politicians that they better shield them from further liability or expect more of this behavior. Shut the power down when the wind blows, af…

My money is they get taken over by the state. Privatizing a utility was always a stupid move to begin with and they are finally proving it beyond any reasonable doubt. It's time we get to fixing all the damage Regan did to this country.

Do you see a legal pathway for this to happen?

In one scenario, CA keeps legislating more and more liabilities to PG&E until it goes bankrupt, in which case the state could take it over, but would also be saddled with those same liabilities.

Alternatively, they step back the liabilities and try to negotiate a deal with PG&E to take over, which would essentially be a buyout. However, what would the incentive be to sell a profitable company with a natural monopoly in one of the nation's largest power markets? I'd imagine the investors would price it so high that the deal would quickly become unattractive to the state.

If they went the expropriation route, that would be a hell of a court case to watch.

Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room

#23

Post by danans »

tryptophan wrote: post #19
luckydata wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My money is they get taken over by the state. Privatizing a utility was always a stupid move to begin with and they are finally proving it beyond any reasonable doubt. It's time we get to fixing all the damage Regan did to this country.

Private utilites work just fine in every other state. Maybe this just a California being California issue again. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater...

> Maybe this just a California being California issue again.

California is a high fire risk state regardless of whether the utility is publicly owned or investor (aka privately) owned. The risk is on a level that doesn't occur in many other states.

If the costs of fires are going to be socialized anyways (by immunizing utility from the liability, hence putting the burden on the ratepayers), the question of whether the utility should be publicly owned in order to reduce the obligation to shareholders is a valid one.

Either that or PGE will have to dramatically increase it's expenditures on maintenance to reduce the fire risk, which will have to come from shareholders' and ratepayers' pockets (the latter of which is not permitted under current PUC rules, IIUC).

Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room

#25

Post by pjc50 »

whatshisface wrote: post #15
luckydata wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My money is they get taken over by the state. Privatizing a utility was always a stupid move to begin with and they are finally proving it beyond any reasonable doubt. It's time we get to fixing all the damage Regan did to this country.

How did president Regan privatize a California utility?

Reagan was governor of California at one point in the 70s.

However, I'm not clear whether PG&E was ever actually nationalised?

Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room

#26

Post by adrr »

tsomctl wrote: post #2

> The company, which is facing $30 billion in liabilities from recent wildfires started by its equipment Conspiracy theory (which is shared by everyone I've talked to): PG&E turned off the power to make a political statement that they shouldn't be liable for wildfires. Edit: by "not be liable", I mean passing legislation to achieve this.

Risk of transmission and distribution lines snapping or having trees fall into them starts at wind speeds of 55mph. Area had 77MPH gusts which would have brought down some lines which could have started a fire. Combine that with abnormal amount of rain during spring which increased fuel levels and extremely dry weather(Single digit humidity levels), it was probably the right thing to do.

Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room

#28

Post by simpsond »

Public utilities should not be for profit companies, especially public listed companies. They shouldn’t aim to maximize profits. If they were to instead maximize utility, they may re-invest in infrastructure more heavily and put power lines under ground. Maybe I am missing something and someone can offer a counter argument.

Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room

#29

Post by someonehere »

blondie9x wrote: post #12

Wildfires were prevented in the North of California where this occurred. The South of California was not spared and the Saddleridge wildfire still rages. I think yes more backup power and staffers are needed at community centers but these black outs are an important way to save lives.

Cal Fire investigators said they spoke with two different witnesses who said they saw someone who may have started one of the fires. The other fire near Redlands was started from a garbage truck dumping its load in an emergency to put out a fire inside of its haul. Which fire are you referring to that started from SoCal Edison?

Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room

#30

Post by jimmcslim »

luckydata wrote: post #13
dstroot wrote: post #11

It will be interesting watching how all this plays out. As others have noted the liability math has certainly changed. Enough to bankrupt one of the largest utility companies in the country. One the other hand this is also a political statement. They are clearly signaling to the politicians that they better shield them from further liability or expect more of this behavior. Shut the power down when the wind blows, af…

My money is they get taken over by the state. Privatizing a utility was always a stupid move to begin with and they are finally proving it beyond any reasonable doubt. It's time we get to fixing all the damage Regan did to this country.

My view is that transmission and distribution of electricity are natural monopolies and therefore should be government-owned.

Generation however should be opened up to market mechanisms that find a price for power, reliability/dispatchability, and emissions.

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